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Fwd: Can objective dialogue on Gnosis be realized

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  • zephyros93
    ... wrote: Hi All, 93 The issue has come up that there is likely, no way to dialogue on Gnostic experience as it is entirely subjective.
    Message 1 of 1 , Jul 19, 2002
      --- In Therionic_Gnosticism@y..., Paul Joseph Rovelli
      <zephyros93@y...> wrote:

      Hi All,

      93

      The issue has come up that there is likely, no way to dialogue on
      Gnostic 'experience' as it is entirely subjective. And I would
      counter that with strong disagreement as a presumption that bears no
      merit. If Gnostic experience is entirely subjective experience, then
      it is entirely a solipsistic experience that has no a priori
      connection to the objective universe. Therefore, the notion is
      solipsistic and follows an erroneous philosophical line.

      So the question really is, how can objective gnostic experience be
      attained and how can it be related to others? Here is where I will
      speak from my experience. But first, if there is ojective knowledge,
      that means by experiment, two separate Gnostics in two separate
      places at two separate times, need to perform the same laboratory
      function, seeking at least a similar result upon relation. A certain
      set of common symbols needs to be devised so that the subtle nature
      of the exercise can be communicated...and so forth.

      This is the very nature of Scientific Illuminism as expounded by
      certain threads of Thelemic philosophy. Indeed, in the oral
      instruction of the A.'.A.'., that controlled experiment is carried
      out routinely. And the results are objectively quantifyable and
      discernable...as well, they can be shared in dialogue, which is at
      the heart of the A.'.A.'. experience between a teacher and his or her
      student.

      By way of an example, if you read Crowley's essay 'Notes on the
      Astral Plane', he relates a situation where he gave a student a
      symbol that the student had absolutely no prior knowledge of, and he
      gave it for the student to skry. The student then returned to
      Crowley and gave him an exact account of the nature and meaning of
      the symbol. This objectively shows something of the nature of the
      Astral Plane as an actual (menstruum) reality or place. And of
      course, it is used to test the Neophyte, to see if the Neophyte has
      successfully managed to move consciousness into that Plane.

      And this is but the beginning of that kind of work. There is more
      into the higher grades of the A.'.A.'. as well. And while I want to
      suspect that Thelema is not the only tradition that approaches
      Gnostic experience in this way (remember, the Astral example was but
      an example...the A.'.A.'. conception of the Holy Guardian Angel is
      akin to the Gnostic 'Dialogue with the Savior'), it seems that it
      is. Although, I would hope that there's some Gnostic line and/or
      some practitioner on these lists that also takes a similar approach.

      93/93

      pj



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