--- In gnosticism2@y..., ernststrohregenmantelrad
> Dear Morphodyte. I really commend you on your knowledge on
> subject. I really apreciate your input.
Thank you Ernst, I also found a great deal interesting in your
> > the bureaucratic divide of Rome into East and West
> > decentralization of power in late antiquity to make the vast
> > Empire more manageable.
> On the side note to this the line that separates the East and
> Empire is STILL there. If you notice the western side is Roman
> Catholism and the the eastern side is Orthodox. This in turn
> the form of writing as well as the West uses the Latin alpahbet
> the East (with the exception of Rumania and Albenia) uses
Yes the ancient hatreds with the Serbs and Croats reflect the
divide and animus between the Greek and Roma episcopate
after the decision of Rome to centralize all authority at the
Vatican. Given the recent wars started in Balkans, it is plain to
see that the ancient Roman interests STILL play out in our day -
Ernst is correct in saying that Rome never died -
and Philip K. Dick also wrote to the same effect in Radio Free
Albemuth when he also drew the parallel to the US and Soviet
Union dividing up the world between East and West like Rome
> Roman Empire included Africa and that line is also visible.
> it is not clearly distingishable unless you know something
> Arabic dialects. Arabic dialects could be divided into East and
> too and percise there that line falls in somewhere west of
> the dialects of Maghreb and that of Egypt and vastly different.
> guess I ventured into off topic here.
Actually this is interesting and may also be reflected in the types
of historical development we see in Islamic thought; just to
speculate, we see the establishment of the Umayyad califat in
Cordova and the Abbasid Baghdad califat in Babylon, again an
East-West divide with the dicision falling somewhere along
Tunis, until the formation of the Fatimid Califat for a period of two
hundred years, and the foundation of Cairo.
Similarly, the Califat in the Maghrib fell to the descendants of
those same Goths, Vandals and Sueves that formerly drove out
Rome. Like late Rome, the Califat of Cordova collapsed
because of internal rivalries, fundamentalist religious
movements ( Almohads and Murabitun) and disunited armies.
The Fatimid califat, a resurgence of Ptolemaic Egypt, along with
a variant form of Islam - Fatimid Ismailism and its neoplatonic
and Alexandrian influences.
> > These aspects of the Empire functioned so well that when
> > Vandals sacked Rome, the religious arm of the Imperial
> > government was able to survive and establish itself by the
> > of Charlemagne as a power functioning independently of the
> > Constantinople government and its diaconate.
And when Constantinople fell to the Turks, the Sultans only had
to step into a bureaucracy that continued to function and serve
the new Emperors, the Sultans who managed an empire which
conformed more of less to old Byzantium.
> Funny, you brought in goths and vandals. aren't they adhered to
> Arianism form of Christianity at first? Can we make some
I have often wondered if the collapse of the West was due to
some resentment or rebellion among the Visigothic
commanders of Spain who continued to practice their Arian
religion and resented the imposition of Trinity by Nicea.
Also, Priscillianus of Avila was the first bishop of record
executed for heresy. It is rumored that his remains are those in
the pilgrimage spot of Santiago Camposella, not St. James.
> > England. the next blow was the French Revolution and the
> > of political power in France.
> Ooooh now you are getting into to the meat of it. I would like to
> mention them in relation to the Vatican bank scandal (money
> with Italian and american mafias) and a bogus masonic lodge
> have great deal to do with the death of JP I (which became a
> for the movie "Godfather III") and shooting of the current Pope.
Yes, JP-I seems to have been 'put to sleep' by those interested
in installing someone more attuned to regaining temporal power
after John XXIII managed to dismantle so much with Vatican 2.
> > The Church continues to expand its base in Latin America,
> > Phillipines and in Africa - Opus Dei waiting in the wings.
> Yes, indeed but too but mother Theresa, the propagandaist for
> died. Who would they turn to now?
Actually, their current Modus Operandi is to use 'liberation
theology' and community intervention in the form of health clinics,
pharmaceuticals and hospitals and schools- for example in
Guatemala where the Church has managed to play Government
against the indigenous Maya - offering the Maya safety if they
practice Catholic religion rather than the ancient Maya.
> And one more thing is the use of monetary system which is
> to that of Rome.
The coin of Caesar, I agree very much so.
> > Right now American republicanism (the USA is not a true
> > democracy, contrary to popular belief) is threatened by the
> > increasing powers of the Executive and its support from
> > Christian extremists - much the same as in late antiquity.
> It is disturbing that these people coupled with extreme zionists
> Islamists (Wahabism-Islamo-fascists) are getting control.
Fundamentalism is a curious reaction to modernity, let us not
forget Americans are just as violently fundamentalist over two
teaching evolution in schools.
These two issues alone have given what would otherwise be
regarded as backwater hicks a major control of American
recent comments by Southern baptist leadership calling
Muhammad a demonic pedophile bode ill for the couse of
American destiny; perhaps we will again see witch burnings if
these rabid bigots are not reigned in.
> but thanks to the 9-11 Reichtag incidents the rights are slowly
> striping away for the reason of National Security. So we must
> these terrorists, right?
Like the Reichstag, the 9-11 has given the Brown Shirts in
American politics the rule of the day - anyone suspected of
'terrorism' can now be hauled off to tribunal without legal counsel
or due process - the "terrorists" have succeeded in ways most
Americans do not suspect; they have gotten us to destroy our
own freedoms. Now police, having been made into heroes by
sacrificing bodies at the Altar of 1 and 2 World Trade Center act
with impunity to beat up and harrass not "terrorists" but blacks,
hispanics, and people middle eastern descent - anyone with a
brown skin, because the now common perception is that they
are all heroes.
Homeland Security - Fatherland the resemblances are all to
>Like in rome we must protect from German
> barbarians. but you know I think these barberians and roman
> knew each other. hhhmmm I wonder bin Ladin and Bush .....
yes, the Goth armies were in the employ of Rome, they grew the
wheat for Roman bread on the banks of Guadalquivir, citrus from
Valencia, wine from Seville, olive oil - hmmm. Now we get
petroleum oil from the very enemies we would protect our
> Hey, Lincoln didn't care for black slaves. His plan was to send
> all back to Africa. (Like Liberia which is what that nation was
> created) And right it was the state rights that was lost in the
> American Civil War.
Agreed, the emancipation was aimed only at the dismantling of
Southern agriculture and economy to favor polictical and
economic control by the industrialized North - get the black to
migrate North to work for low wage in the textile factories .
Too bad the issue that used in the state rights
> was slavery which had moral consequeces. I think we could
> the state's rights this time by bringing up the medical marijana.
The predecessor in the "War on Terror", the "War on Drugs" - say
goodbye to amendments 4, 5, 9, to protect us from the demon
weed and wage undeclared war on villagers in Mexico and the
Andes. The war on Drugs sets a bad precedent for the War on
Terror since they are both unspecified and undefined enemies;
no clear objectives or outcomes and terrorism like drug is a
matter of definition, someday refusing to say Pledge Allegiance
could get suspect of terrorist sympathy and jail - we live in
Terrorist, like Christian in the Colusseum - anyone suspected
can be fed to Lions, or in this case, the Police. Quickly our
country has forgotten the lessons of McCarthy era where anyone
could be suspect of Communism - and like a witch, only took the
suspicion to be accused and convicted.
The value of Gnosticism in our times cannot be understated
because it is of course a message of Freedom, not dogma or
doctrine nor Law nor State. The times we live in are an echo of
our ancestors, the Rome that never died.