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Definition

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  • morphodyte
    For those of us who are not too familiar with the working definitions of Love you are using could you please post some pertinent to caritas, eros, philos,
    Message 1 of 5 , Jun 15, 2002
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      For those of us who are not too familiar with the working
      definitions of 'Love' you are using could you please post some
      pertinent to caritas, eros, philos, agape, ludos?

      I realize you may be busy and this may seem a tedious request,
      however, for my own learning and ability to be conversant at least
      ot would help to understand the terrain of discourse.

      BTW, I have very much enjoyed reading the posts on this list and
      some of your posts on Gnostic Garden which would be great if
      you reposeted here.

      I was also looking at some of Terje's posts re: Corbin on
      philosophia and found them quite insightful. Caritas, of course
      your posts are very insightful as well.

      Too bad I found this list so late, it really provides a nice place to
      express these ideas and hear from ideologically congruent
      others.

      Morph
    • pmcvflag
      Hey Morph Terje is always good for these kinds of interesting posts, well thought and articulate. As far as reposting my parts, of course it isn t tedious ;)
      Message 2 of 5 , Jun 15, 2002
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        Hey Morph

        Terje is always good for these kinds of interesting posts, well
        thought and articulate.

        As far as reposting my parts, of course it isn't tedious ;) However,
        I'm not sure I remember anything about the garden. Did I write it or
        some one else? I forget things easily these days. Here is a breif
        explination of the love forms....

        In certain forms of esotericism there was something called the "scala
        amoris" (ladder of love). This is an experiential form of
        exotericism, as it is dependant on the actual practice of each of the
        love forms in turn. There is a sort of natural progression through
        some stages that take thier due course in the average healthy persons
        life. Here are the bottom three stages.....

        Cherritas (the Italian school called it "civilitas", and the
        Provencal school didn't deal with this form. I can't remember where I
        started calling it "Cherritas". I don't know if the German school did
        or not, I can't remember) This is the basic extended familial bond.
        The social structure was seen as an extension of this form of love as
        well. The point of this concept is to deal with the sort of natural
        love that a child is born into, and raised with in it's early years.

        Then a child reaches puberty and the next form comes into play. Ludos
        (or "libido", as it was traditionally called, but I like "ludos"
        since it also implies the fickleness). This one is probably already
        obvious. It is the unrefined sex drive (but is sometimes extended to
        any other form of basic physical drive, such as hunger).

        The third is "storge". Storge is actually a fairly wide ranging term.
        It means "frindship" and is differentiated from "cherritas" by a sort
        of congiscent choice. That is to say, "Cherritas" is a sort of blood
        bond, as well as a duty bond. Storge on the other hand is the love
        you feel for a friend, political ideal, etc., based on the good
        qualites you percieve it to contain (and so it is the biginning of
        the refinement process in a way).

        The primary spiritual forms comes next, and were called "fin amore"
        or "refined love". It is these forms that were the goal that the
        methodology of the system was supposed to healp one reach.

        Agape is the first. Agape comes partially from a mystical experience.
        It happens when one has that moment of interconnectedness with all
        life (seeing the spark of God in the world as it were). It is this
        word "agape" that the new testement uses almost exclusively.

        Eros is next. People today are used to thinking of Eros as "libido"
        or Ludos, but that was not the connotation it has in the esoteric
        system we are talking about. When one has had the Agape experience,
        they can then transfer that to a sort of dedicated connection to a
        mate. You could call this a "soul mate" except that it contains none
        of the ideas of predestination that the term has come to hold for
        many. It is a mate who has attributes that are essential to the
        attraction of your soul. In other words, your "erotic" love comes to
        hold a spiritually guiding value. This is primarily the form that the
        courts of love practiced (and the one that the love club was meant to
        concentrate on more than the others, since in a certain way all the
        previous vorms reside within eros).

        Caritas is the last form. One has to watch thier sources for this
        one. Barnard of Clairveaux stole the term and considered it an
        extension of Agape, only with the allegorical connotaions of eros
        (and ONLY the allegorical. While he was heavily influenced by the
        courts, he was also a philosophical enemy. So much for those who try
        to attatch the Templars with the courts lol.) In a more accurate
        sense, it is the love that Dante dealt with (though he also made some
        adjustments for his own purposes). It is a descriptive quality that
        informs all the other types of love in thier propper contexts, and
        makes them practicaly. It could even be called a sort of "providence"
        or "grace", but one must watch using those words. If Agape comes as
        the fiew of connection with the spirit of the world, and eros is a
        reintigration with one other person based on the interconnectedness
        one sees in agape, then caritas is the integration of all back into
        one just before the dissolution of material infinity into the
        nothingness. The Gnostic equivelent is of course the integration fo
        Logos and Sophia back into Barbelo.

        Well, I hope that helps Morph. Perhaps though if the conversation is
        to proceed anywhare beyond this, it should happen over in the other
        club.

        PMCV

        --- In gnosticism2@y..., "morphodyte" <morphodyte@y...> wrote:
        > For those of us who are not too familiar with the working
        > definitions of 'Love' you are using could you please post some
        > pertinent to caritas, eros, philos, agape, ludos?
        >
        > I realize you may be busy and this may seem a tedious request,
        > however, for my own learning and ability to be conversant at least
        > ot would help to understand the terrain of discourse.
        >
        > BTW, I have very much enjoyed reading the posts on this list and
        > some of your posts on Gnostic Garden which would be great if
        > you reposeted here.
        >
        > I was also looking at some of Terje's posts re: Corbin on
        > philosophia and found them quite insightful. Caritas, of course
        > your posts are very insightful as well.
        >
        > Too bad I found this list so late, it really provides a nice place
        to
        > express these ideas and hear from ideologically congruent
        > others.
        >
        > Morph
      • morphodyte
        ... conversation is ... other ... Lovely and thank you so much! Any further comment of course will be done on appropriate club per your genteel request. I am
        Message 3 of 5 , Jun 16, 2002
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          --- In gnosticism2@y..., pmcvflag <no_reply@y...> wrote:

          > Well, I hope that helps Morph. Perhaps though if the
          conversation is
          > to proceed anywhare beyond this, it should happen over in the
          other
          > club.
          >
          > PMCV

          Lovely and thank you so much!

          Any further comment of course will be done on appropriate club
          per your genteel request.

          I am in insomniac mode tonight and thinking thoughts about the
          Valentinian and Lurianic systems and potential heresy, or at
          least Ialtabaoth will think so, being the Antinomos that I am. Ohh,
          the things that float my boat, eh?

          Regarding the posts on GG, which I thought were so good, yes
          you did write them, and given their clarity and expository
          thoroughness, you must start keeping copies in your files
          somewhere, they may come in handy!

          Morph
        • s_e_k_h_m_e_t
          Is that the Gnostic Garden ethnobotany board? ... the ... club ... the ... Ohh,
          Message 4 of 5 , Jun 16, 2002
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            Is that the Gnostic Garden ethnobotany board?


            --- In gnosticism2@y..., "morphodyte" <morphodyte@y...> wrote:
            > --- In gnosticism2@y..., pmcvflag <no_reply@y...> wrote:
            >
            > > Well, I hope that helps Morph. Perhaps though if the
            > conversation is
            > > to proceed anywhare beyond this, it should happen over in
            the
            > other
            > > club.
            > >
            > > PMCV
            >
            > Lovely and thank you so much!
            >
            > Any further comment of course will be done on appropriate
            club
            > per your genteel request.
            >
            > I am in insomniac mode tonight and thinking thoughts about
            the
            > Valentinian and Lurianic systems and potential heresy, or at
            > least Ialtabaoth will think so, being the Antinomos that I am.
            Ohh,
            > the things that float my boat, eh?
            >
            > Regarding the posts on GG, which I thought were so good, yes
            > you did write them, and given their clarity and expository
            > thoroughness, you must start keeping copies in your files
            > somewhere, they may come in handy!
            >
            > Morph
          • morphodyte
            gaaa; that is the GnosticGathering list, not gnostic garden! My own mistake and imprecision. Sorry for the confusion. Morph ... yes
            Message 5 of 5 , Jun 16, 2002
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              gaaa;

              that is the GnosticGathering list, not gnostic garden! My own
              mistake and imprecision.

              Sorry for the confusion.

              Morph


              --- In gnosticism2@y..., s_e_k_h_m_e_t <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > Is that the Gnostic Garden ethnobotany board?
              >
              >
              > --- In gnosticism2@y..., "morphodyte" <morphodyte@y...>
              wrote:
              > > --- In gnosticism2@y..., pmcvflag <no_reply@y...> wrote:
              > >
              > > > Well, I hope that helps Morph. Perhaps though if the
              > > conversation is
              > > > to proceed anywhare beyond this, it should happen over in
              > the
              > > other
              > > > club.
              > > >
              > > > PMCV
              > >
              > > Lovely and thank you so much!
              > >
              > > Any further comment of course will be done on appropriate
              > club
              > > per your genteel request.
              > >
              > > I am in insomniac mode tonight and thinking thoughts about
              > the
              > > Valentinian and Lurianic systems and potential heresy, or at
              > > least Ialtabaoth will think so, being the Antinomos that I am.
              > Ohh,
              > > the things that float my boat, eh?
              > >
              > > Regarding the posts on GG, which I thought were so good,
              yes
              > > you did write them, and given their clarity and expository
              > > thoroughness, you must start keeping copies in your files
              > > somewhere, they may come in handy!
              > >
              > > Morph
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