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About anthropomorphizing

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  • play_nice_now
    I asked something of the Lady Caritas that may seem unreasonable to the gnostic mindset especially in light of the fact that we, as humans, do not live in a
    Message 1 of 5 , May 20, 2002
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      I asked something of the Lady Caritas that may seem
      unreasonable to the gnostic mindset especially in light of the fact
      that we, as humans, do not live in a vacuum as the lady says. Is
      it possible to see with the eyes of the spirit as opposed to only
      with the eyes of the body? Again, I apologize if this doesn't seem
      to fit in with gnostic ideas but I think it is important to post
      anyway.

      Here is a reading from the Gospel of Peace -- book two:

      And Jesus spoke:

      "To lift your eyes to heaven
      When all mens' eyes are on the ground,
      Is not easy.
      To worship at the feet of the angels
      When all men worship only fame and riches,
      Is not easy.

      But the most difficult of all
      Is to think the thoughts of the angels,
      To speak the words of the angels,
      And to do as angels do. "

      And one man spoke: "But, Master, we are but men, we are not
      angels. How then can we hope to walk in their ways? Tell us
      what we must do."

      And Jesus spoke:

      "As the son inherits the land of his father,
      So have we inherited a Holy Land
      From our Fathers.
      This land is not a field to be ploughed,
      But a place within us
      Where we may build our Holy Temple.
      And even as a temple must be raised,
      Stone by stone,
      So will I give to you those stones
      For the building of the Holy Temple;
      That which we have inherited
      From our Fathers,
      And their Fathers' Fathers."

      And all the men gathered around Jesus, and their faces shone
      with desire to hear the words which would come from his lips.
      And he lifted his face to the rising sun, and the radiance of its
      rays filled his eyes as he spoke:

      "The Holy Temple can be built
      Only with the ancient Communions,
      Those which are spoken,
      Those which are thought,
      And those which are lived.
      For if they are spoken only with the mouth,
      They are as a dead hive
      Which the bees have forsaken,
      That gives no more honey.
      Communions are a bridge
      Between man and the angels,
      And like a bridge,
      Can be built only with patience,
      Yea, even as the bridge over the river
      Is fashioned stone by stone,
      As they are found by the water's edge."

      And the Communions are fourteen in number
      As the Angels of the Heavenly Father
      Number seven,
      And the Angels of the Earthly Mother
      Number seven.

      And just as the roots of the tree
      Sink into the earth and are nourished,
      And the branches of the tree
      Raise their arms to heaven,
      So is man like the trunk of the tree,
      With his roots deep
      In the breast of his Earthly Mother,
      And his soul ascending
      To the bright stars of his Heavenly Father.

      And the roots of the tree
      Are the Angels of the Earthly Mother,
      And the branches of the tree
      Are the Angels of the Heavenly Father.
      And this is the sacred Tree of Life
      Which stands in the Sea of Eternity.
    • wilbro99
      play, not having a gnostic mindset, or, for that matter, a religious mindset, regardless of the religion named, your question raises an interesting point. Is
      Message 2 of 5 , May 20, 2002
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        play, not having a gnostic mindset, or, for that matter, a religious
        mindset, regardless of the religion named, your question raises an
        interesting point. Is it possible to see with the eyes of the spirit
        as opposed to only with the eyes of the body? The question posits
        another pair of eyes, and in the use of the term "only" concretizes
        that posit. From whence cometh this other pair of eyes? It comes from
        the act of imagination, where imagination, which is, in fact, another
        pair of eyes, being the eyes that allows us to plan for the future by
        changing the present, such as building a bridge over a chasm, is
        imagined as being spiritual eyes, which, in turn, allows the one doing
        the imagining to have free run in defining, i.e., imagining, what
        those spiritual eyes see.

        I apologize if this does not fit in with any religious ideas, but I
        think it is important to post anyway. Devolutionist of the Deep, Moby
        Willy


        --- In gnosticism2@y..., "play_nice_now" <searay@b...> wrote:
        > I asked something of the Lady Caritas that may seem
        > unreasonable to the gnostic mindset especially in light of the fact
        > that we, as humans, do not live in a vacuum as the lady says. Is
        > it possible to see with the eyes of the spirit as opposed to only
        > with the eyes of the body? Again, I apologize if this doesn't seem
        > to fit in with gnostic ideas but I think it is important to post
        > anyway.
        >
        > Here is a reading from the Gospel of Peace -- book two:
        >
        > And Jesus spoke:
        >
        > "To lift your eyes to heaven
        > When all mens' eyes are on the ground,
        > Is not easy.
        > To worship at the feet of the angels
        > When all men worship only fame and riches,
        > Is not easy.
        >
        > But the most difficult of all
        > Is to think the thoughts of the angels,
        > To speak the words of the angels,
        > And to do as angels do. "
        >
        > And one man spoke: "But, Master, we are but men, we are not
        > angels. How then can we hope to walk in their ways? Tell us
        > what we must do."
        >
        > And Jesus spoke:
        >
        > "As the son inherits the land of his father,
        > So have we inherited a Holy Land
        > From our Fathers.
        > This land is not a field to be ploughed,
        > But a place within us
        > Where we may build our Holy Temple.
        > And even as a temple must be raised,
        > Stone by stone,
        > So will I give to you those stones
        > For the building of the Holy Temple;
        > That which we have inherited
        > From our Fathers,
        > And their Fathers' Fathers."
        >
        > And all the men gathered around Jesus, and their faces shone
        > with desire to hear the words which would come from his lips.
        > And he lifted his face to the rising sun, and the radiance of its
        > rays filled his eyes as he spoke:
        >
        > "The Holy Temple can be built
        > Only with the ancient Communions,
        > Those which are spoken,
        > Those which are thought,
        > And those which are lived.
        > For if they are spoken only with the mouth,
        > They are as a dead hive
        > Which the bees have forsaken,
        > That gives no more honey.
        > Communions are a bridge
        > Between man and the angels,
        > And like a bridge,
        > Can be built only with patience,
        > Yea, even as the bridge over the river
        > Is fashioned stone by stone,
        > As they are found by the water's edge."
        >
        > And the Communions are fourteen in number
        > As the Angels of the Heavenly Father
        > Number seven,
        > And the Angels of the Earthly Mother
        > Number seven.
        >
        > And just as the roots of the tree
        > Sink into the earth and are nourished,
        > And the branches of the tree
        > Raise their arms to heaven,
        > So is man like the trunk of the tree,
        > With his roots deep
        > In the breast of his Earthly Mother,
        > And his soul ascending
        > To the bright stars of his Heavenly Father.
        >
        > And the roots of the tree
        > Are the Angels of the Earthly Mother,
        > And the branches of the tree
        > Are the Angels of the Heavenly Father.
        > And this is the sacred Tree of Life
        > Which stands in the Sea of Eternity.
      • tsgnosis
        ... Hi Play, If this question seems unreasonable to a gnostic, I would wonder what misguided understanding they have of gnosis altogether! Matthew 6:22 The eye
        Message 3 of 5 , May 20, 2002
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          --- In gnosticism2@y..., "play_nice_now" <searay@b...> wrote:

          > I asked something of the Lady Caritas that may seem unreasonable to
          > the gnostic mindset especially in light of the fact that we, as
          > humans, do not live in a vacuum as the lady says. Is it possible
          > to see with the eyes of the spirit as opposed to only with the eyes
          > of the body? Again, I apologize if this doesn't seem to fit in with
          > gnostic ideas but I think it is important to post anyway.
          >

          Hi Play,

          If this question seems unreasonable to a gnostic, I would wonder what
          misguided understanding they have of gnosis altogether!


          Matthew 6:22
          The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are good, your whole
          body will be full of light.

          Matthew 13:15
          For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with
          their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see
          with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts
          and turn, and I would heal them.'

          Mark 8:18
          Do you have eyes but fail to see, and ears but fail to hear?

          Luke 10:23
          Then he turned to his disciples and said privately, "Blessed are the
          eyes that see what you see.

          Luke 24:31
          Then their eyes were opened and they recognized him.

          Gospel of Thomas (22) They said to him, "Shall we, then, be as
          children to enter the Kingdom?" Jesus said to them, "When you make
          the two one, and when you make the inner as the outer and the outer
          as the inner, and the above as the below, and when you make the male
          and the female into a single one, so that the male not be male and
          the female not be female; and when you make eyes in the place of an
          eye, and a hand in the place of a hand, and a foot in the place of a
          foot, and an image in place of an image; then will you enter the
          Kingdom."


          Our physical eyes are filters. How could we see through the veils of
          illusion with our physical eyes? How could we see what is in our
          hearts with our physical eyes? In order to ask the question you
          asked, you've already seen with the eyes of your spirit.

          Laura
        • Play Nice Now
          Moby, my comments below: ... Actually, there is a difference between what imagination sees and what the spirit sees . I m not sure how much detail to go
          Message 4 of 5 , May 21, 2002
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            Re: [Gnosticism] Re: About anthropomorphizing Moby,

            my comments below:

            on 5/20/02 10:14 PM, wilbro99 at wilbro99@... wrote:

            > play, not having a gnostic mindset, or, for that matter, a religious
            > mindset, regardless of the religion named, your question raises an
            > interesting point. Is it possible to see with the eyes of the spirit
            > as opposed to only with the eyes of the body? The question posits
            > another pair of eyes, and in the use of the term "only" concretizes
            > that posit. From whence cometh this other pair of eyes? It comes from
            > the act of imagination, where imagination, which is, in fact, another
            > pair of eyes, being the eyes that allows us to plan for the future by
            > changing the present, such as building a bridge over a chasm, is
            > imagined as being spiritual eyes, which, in turn, allows the one doing
            > the imagining to have free run in defining, i.e., imagining, what
            > those spiritual eyes see.

            Actually, there is a difference between what imagination "sees" and what the spirit "sees".  I'm not sure how much detail to go into here but one of the differences is that the spirit  is governed by universal law (resonates with it even) and the other isn't. Universal law exists in nature, which is also one of the best places to go if you want to learn more about it and can't seem to find it in yourself.  The spirit is attracted to this "law" (truth; word) and seeks to harmonize with it in all ways. The imagination, well, let's just say it does whatever it wants and could care less about harmonizing with anything although it can do that too if it wants. LOL! Imagination is of the mind, which itself is like a bridge between what is physical and what is spiritual and therefore capable of all sorts of thoughts. Spirit is a permanent part of our being which transcends both mind and body and is capable of communicating with the infinite. The "eyes of the spirit" is just metaphor to place form on what is otherwise formless. I could have also said the "ears" or "mouth" of the spirit which would illustrate the concept equally as well.

            The blend between mind, body and spirit has incredible powers over what becomes manifest in our lives.  Over what becomes "real" to us as individuals, groups, communities, society etc.... It becomes a matter of what governs the mind more; the needs of the body or of the spirit? The body does not need what  the spirit needs and  vice-versa but each part needs it's own kind of "food" to have health for if one dies or become inbalanced, so does the other. So, it becomes important to find a balance that works for you.

            That's the way I sees it anyway.... ;-)

            peace,
            play
          • Play Nice Now
            ... Yes I have and do often :-) And in order for you to recognize it, so have you. :-) My spirit rejoices whenever I meet another one along this path I m on.
            Message 5 of 5 , May 21, 2002
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              on 5/20/02 11:28 PM, tsgnosis at tsgnosis@... wrote:

              > illusion with our physical eyes? How could we see what is in our
              > hearts with our physical eyes? In order to ask the question you
              > asked, you've already seen with the eyes of your spirit.

              Yes I have and do often :-) And in order for you to recognize it, so have
              you. :-) My spirit rejoices whenever I meet another one along this path I'm
              on.

              From one spirit to the other....

              peace be with you Laura,
              play
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