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Re: [Gnosticism] Re: Thomasine Metaphor

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  • rajinder.nijjhar
    Hi, In the Rabbis who kept law and order, the kingdom of heaven was outside your physical body whilst the Word of God, Gospel gives your Peace of Mind and that
    Message 1 of 3 , May 4, 2002
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      Hi,
       
      In the Rabbis who kept law and order, the kingdom of heaven was outside your physical body whilst the Word of God, Gospel gives your Peace of Mind and that is Kingdom of God with in you.
       
      Thus, whereas the kingdom of heaven is outside, the kingdom of God is within you.
       
      Let him hear who has the ears.
       
                                           Ch. Rajinder Nijjhar, M.Sc.
                                    A Jatt of the United Greater Panjab,
                                      Mussallmaan of Pir Nanak Shah,
          Gnostics are the living christs (satgurus) and NOT Christians, of Living
       Allah (Spirit),
       
      This Dark Age is the Age of Al-Islaam of heart and NOT of any Book.
            For articles on sister Christian and Sikh communities, visit:-
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 10:00 PM
      Subject: [Gnosticism] Re: Thomasine Metaphor

      The kingdom inside could be interpreted three ways, either that two
      kingdoms are implied, and Christ is saying they have already
      attained the second while in the first, The kingdom inside you
      refers to the potential for developing into a pneumatic, and/or
      inside you meaning they themselves while outside you means the rest
      of physical creation. Christ seems to have double and somtimes
      triple meanings, and this could be one of them, but I think the
      first meaning is most applicable in this saying. As for Kabbalah, I
      believe it was written later, but had exsisted  at least as far back
      as the Egyptian and Babalonian captivities. This is not so odd as
      some scholars would have you believe, in ancient times when
      proffesions were inherited from your father, kings and other
      nobility would employ courtesans or specialised clergy to memorise
      huge genealogies going back centuries, on top of each ancestors
      exploits. I don't see why the Kabbalah could not have survived this
      way back into pre-history. There also seems to be an Egyptian
      Kabbalah, and the old testament does note that Moses learned his
      arts from the Egyptians. At any rate, Gnosis is not bound by time.
      Gnosis is Gnosis, we all get it from the same place. I don't think
      there are pools of Gnosis floating about labeled 'Sufi Gnosis'
      and 'Carpocratian Gnosis'. How you interpret Gnosis depends on the
      mythic archtypes burned most deeply into your mind. Even if the
      Kabbalah is a fairly new creation, don't you think it's just a
      little bit odd that this makes sense, even though these are two
      radicly different traditions, from different cultures and
      traditions? Another possability is that one of those 'roots' of
      Kabbalism was known to Christ, which doesn't seem so strange to me
      either. I've heard many theories that he was educated by the
      Essenes, various Egyptian mystery schools, etc. I'm not saying what
      I see is right, what I am saying is this is something that sticks
      out in my mind, and to me seems like a possability. It is up for
      debate. :)







      --- In gnosticism2@y..., lady_caritas <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > Interesting, Hermetic Star.  Yes, the physical world is referred
      to
      > as a corpse (Logion 56), but is the "kingdom" also really just the
      > material world?
      >
      > The Gospel of Thomas most likely was composed before 200 A.D. 
      > Although true that Kabbalah had ancient roots, the distinct
      movement
      > within Judaism occurred in medieval Europe along with the fully
      > developed idea of emanated sefirot.  So, I'm not convinced that
      the
      > kingdom is specifically Malkuth.
      >
      > How do you describe the "kingdom inside of you"?  Do we not see a
      > realm of the living father beyond the material?
      >
      > Logion 27 ~ "Jesus said, `If you (plur.) do not abstain from the
      > world you will not find the kingdom."
      >
      > Cari :-)
      >
      >
      > --- In gnosticism2@y..., hermetic_star <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > > I find a metaphor in the word 'kingdom'. Of coarse the kingdom
      is
      > > Malkuth, the lowest sephera on the Tree of Life, which
      represents
      > > the physical world. In saying 3 Jesus says "the kingdom is
      inside
      > > you and it is outside you. In saying 56 Jesus says those who
      know
      > > the world have discovered a carcass, and of that person the
      world
      > is
      > > not worthy. The world, of coarse, is Malkuth again. A corpse
      could
      > > also be attributed to Malkuth, because it is the outward,
      physical,
      > > worldly expression of a person. The world is not worthy of a
      person
      > > who has discovered a carcass, because this person is aware that
      the
      > > world is dead, and only an imitation of the spititual realm. In
      > > other words, he has gained spirit. 'Kingdom' also reminds me of
      a
      > > verse in Proverbs, "The meek shall inherit the earth". If you
      read
      > > this according to the rest of this post, the verse should
      probably
      > > read "The meek shall inherit dirt". It would be interesting to
      see
      > > all possable meanings of the actual Hebrew term that was used.



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    • rajinder.nijjhar
      Hi, I doubt if you know about the kingdom of heaven at all never mind these other things. Tell me where is the kingdom of heaven please? Kingdom of God is
      Message 2 of 3 , May 12, 2002
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        Hi,
         
        I doubt if you know about the kingdom of heaven at all never mind these other things.
         
        Tell me where is the kingdom of heaven please?  Kingdom of God is different from the kingdom of heaven.
         
        Rajinder Nijjhar
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Sunday, May 12, 2002 12:34 AM
        Subject: [Gnosticism] Re: Thomasine Metaphor

        There are 10 sephera x 4 worlds, x 10 (Each sephera has its own
        tree). This adds up to 400 sephera. I believe the kingdom of heaven
        would refer to one of the higher sephera, probably the one that
        forms the 'Crown' or 'Kether' of the tree of this world. This, of
        coarse is looking at it from a 1400's or later perspective. I
        believe Christ was talking about the kingdom of living spirits.
        People were hearing Christ, he was bringing the (spiritualy) dead
        back to life. If you inherit the physical world, and die tommorow,
        what good does it do? Or if you inherit the physical world, it now
        belongs to you, will you take it from the person who the law
        recognises as the rightful owner? Or are you referring to a mastery
        of and domination of the laws of the physical world? 



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      • hermetic_star
        Gee, Raj, you mean you have all the answers? Pardon me. I have been looking all this time, and I only had to ask you. While I have your attention, maybe you
        Message 3 of 3 , May 12, 2002
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          Gee, Raj, you mean you have all the answers? Pardon me. I have been
          looking all this time, and I only had to ask you. While I have your
          attention, maybe you can answer a couple of other questions that
          have been nagging me as well. First off, if you have all the
          answers, how come you are asking me questions? Second, why are you
          making assumptions as to my state of spirituality? If you truely had
          open eyes, wouldn't you know my spiritual condition without a doubt
          just as Christ was able to do? The kingdom of heaven has nothing to
          do with the kingdom on earth. The kingdom in heaven are the lower
          Aeons ruled by planetary powers, and the hands of fate. The Kingdom
          of God to most people is where their creator god resides, but to the
          Gnostic it is the Pleroma. I may be way out in left field, Raj, but
          my posts do apply to the theme of this club, and I am in the process
          of reading the holy scriptures and ancient sects this group is
          concerned with. I am not interested in the gospel according to Raj,
          I have my own personal spirituality. I am not asking you to leave me
          alone, I am WARNING you to leave me alone unless you feel like
          defending your faith from a trial by hellfire, because I WILL rip
          your views apart should you persist in heckeling, prosteletising,
          and/or messing with my right to peacefuly co-exsist on this board.
          Thank you, and have a nice day. :)







          --- In gnosticism2@y..., "rajinder.nijjhar" <rajinder.nijjhar@n...>
          wrote:
          > Hi,
          >
          > I doubt if you know about the kingdom of heaven at all never mind
          these other things.
          >
          > Tell me where is the kingdom of heaven please? Kingdom of God is
          different from the kingdom of heaven.
          >
          > Rajinder Nijjhar
          >
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