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Re: Gospel of Thomas not Gnostic???

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  • ErnstStrohregenmantelrad
    Reply to Terje s post #5625 >>>The Jesus character of the GTh is one who is living and who measures out a living stream - he that drinks
    Message 1 of 1 , Mar 8, 2002
      Reply to Terje's post
      #5625<br><br>>>>The Jesus character of the GTh is one who is "living"
      and who "measures out a living stream" - he that
      drinks this, becomes paradoxically both intoxicated/full
      - and sober/empty.<<<<br><br>I think these
      are from Logion 13, 108<br><br>>>>He
      transforms his Being according to the uniform pattern of
      "the Light", which is his origin, which "moves" and
      have "rest" within him - making "that which is
      interior like unto that which is exterior", and vice
      versa. moreover - he transforms gender as realities, so
      his anatomy no longer has the likeness of either
      "Adam" nor "Eve" - thus he casts off his "parents" which
      he has learned to be dispassionate
      about.<<<<br><br>And I think these are from Logion 22, 49, 61b, 89,
      114<br><br>>>>The Christianity from which such a "Gospel" issues
      forth must be oriented towards "understanding" and
      "recognition", towards a Gnosis (knowing) whose effect upon the
      Soul is transformation, transfiguration and "life
      eternal". Knowing a little bit about Church history I must
      say that it appears to me that the main writers of
      the "orthodox" tradition - polemized and fought
      against such a faith/orientation, rather than embraced
      it. <<<<br><br>And you are right in stating
      that "orthodox" would not embrace such a document;
      however, I do not think it would seem appropriate to paint
      the history of the church as "orthodox" vs.
      "Gnostics". We will be trapped in the thinking laid down by
      heresiologists if we were to do that. I think, there were myriad
      of diverse groups then just black and white of
      "orthodox" vs. "Gnostics". There were groups that might fall
      under the gray area for example Clement of Alexandria
      (if we are to believe Morton Smith). The term
      "orthodox" is the creation of Christians who had the
      particular theology and imposed it on others. If anyone
      derivates from that theology he is branded as a heretic.
      Even if that person agrees with 90% of "orthodox" that
      10% will over-ride and make him a
      heretic.<br><br>>>>GTh could not have appealed to anyone but -
      "Gnosis-oriented" christians, call them "Gnostics" if you
      like.<<<<br><br>then our disagreement is just nomenclature.
      <br><br>>>>Whereas not actually betraying overtly association with
      the core Mythos of "Gnosticism" - its appeal, its
      message, its instruction - would be compatible with most
      variants of it; even the libertine, which is the
      "opposite" of the milieu the GTh material comes
      from.<<<<br><br>This is because, as I said, Gnostics that came after
      and claimed the GTh are out growth of "esoteric"
      adaptionalists.<br><br>>>>the Role of being "He that measures out" - Jesus is
      presented as the bringer of the salvific Gnosis, so I
      disagree about it having no christological speculation at
      its core; the issue of "only Saviour" is not
      addressed, because it is taken as a given - the GTh
      purpourts to be - an truely Esoteric and "Apocryphal"
      (Hidden) account of the most intimate exchange between
      Jesus and his disciples -which is also the case for the
      first 2 books of the Pistis
      Sophia.<<<<br><br>The thing is we could say same thing about the Gospel
      of John or Pauline Epistles. But, back to your
      point, it is true that salvafic Gnosis is implied in the
      GTh; however, it is not in detail as Pistis Sophia. In
      Pistis Sophia Jesus explains in detail his role in
      salvation within elaborate cosmology. this is not in the
      GTh. One can say that the GTh is only but a first step
      in the initiatory aspect of esoterism. (Pistis
      Sophia being the second step). This could be so.
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