Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: Peter, Paul and Mary! pt2

Expand Messages
  • ErnstStrohregenmantelrad
    However, the next statement is some what troubling to me. >>>It can be argued that Manicheaism is simply a continuation of the Marcionite
    Message 1 of 1 , Dec 6, 2001
    • 0 Attachment
      However, the next statement is some what
      troubling to me.<br><br>>>>It can be argued that
      Manicheaism is simply a continuation of the Marcionite groups
      they came from (and completely absorbed. I'm aware of
      no evidence of Non -Mani Marcionites after the
      absorbtion)... " <<< <br><br>First of all, where is the
      reference as to arguement that "Manichaeism is simply a
      continuation of the Marccionite groups?" In another words,
      where is this argument discussed? Please state the
      refence(s) to his disussion. Still, the "absorbtion" of one
      group into another doesn't constitute "a continuation"
      If that kind of reasoning is implied you might as
      well call Bosnian Muslims as a continuation of
      Bogomils. If you would research more into Marcion and
      Marcionites you would find out that there are the evidence of
      "Non-Manichaean-Marcionites" especially in the East. If one is to look at the
      article, "With Walter Bauer on the Tigris: Encratite
      Orthodoxy and Libertine Heresy in Syro-Mesopotamian
      Christianity" by Stephen Gero in _Nag Hammadi, Gnosticism, and
      Early Christianity_ ed. Charles W. Hedrick and Robert
      Hodgson, Jr. it speaks of Marcionites existing in
      Mesopotania in the 6th century. (...a _kristyana-i.e.,
      "Christian," the current local designation for the
      Marcionites,... ...The traveler, not just a simple monk but in
      fact a learned scholar from the famous Nestorian
      ecclesiastical academy of Nisibus, claims the name _msihaya_,
      "Messianist," for himself... [p.289] "The Marcionites'
      possession of the name "Christian," according to this text,
      ppoints to their predominance among rival Christian
      groups, and relatively late, in eastern Mesopotamia."
      [p.289-290]). The article goes further saying, "In fact there
      is other evidence which indicates that the peak of
      Marcionite presence and influence in Persion territory
      should be dated to the fifth and sixth centuries"
      (p.290). This statement alone is a fly in your face of
      Manichaeism being "simply a continuation" of Marcionites. For
      if Manichaeism had absorbed Marcionites what is the
      explanation of Marcionites existance way after (the 6th
      century) the founding of Manichaean religion (Mani was
      born in 216- reference see van Oort "Manichaeism" in
      _Gnosis and Hermeticism_ ed by van den Broek and
      Hanegraaff, p.37; Rudolf _Die Gnosis_ p.354 eng. edition
      p.329) in Persia(!) of all the places where Manichaean
      religion was founded. It is ture, however, in the West the
      decline of Marcionism saw the rise in Manichaeism.
      <br><br>"The third century saw the decline of Marcionism in
      the West, although in the East it continued to hold
      its own. In the West it is noteworthy that as
      Marcionitism grew weaker, Manichaeism grew stronger, and it is
      a fair assumption, considering certain points of
      affinity between the teaching of Marcion and that of Mani,
      that in so far as Marcionites did not die out or
      become Catholic Christians, many of them joined
      Manichaeans. Harnack suggests that Western Manichaeism was
      more Christian then Eastern Manichaeism." ("Marcion
      and His Influence_ by E.C. Balckman, 1948,
      p.3-4)<br><br>Even if in the West, Manichaeism absorbed the
      Marcionites population (and keeping in mind that that is only
      from the circumstantial evidence) this will NOT to be
      applied to the Manichaeism in whole or constitues "simply
      a continuation" (for obvious reasons). The trouble
      is your phrasing of "Marcionite groups" What do you
      mean by "Marcinote groups". It it mean groups
      pertaining to the teaching of Marcion or group with same
      kind of the worldview as Marcion. As you can see
      demarkation for both of these terms is very different.
      Finially, as stated before if it were mere continuation
      what accounts for the presence of both groups in the
      East.<br><br>cont.
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.