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Re: Matthew 25:1-13

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  • lady_caritas
    Hi, Tony. You�����re welcome, and yes, one sees again Valentinian exegesis in this book of Pagels (as in her _Gnostic Paul_), but more specifically from
    Message 1 of 1 , Nov 21, 2001
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      Hi, Tony. You�re welcome, and yes, one sees again
      Valentinian exegesis in this book of Pagels (as in her
      _Gnostic Paul_), but more specifically from Heracleon�s
      view of the Gospel of John. I was able to buy a used
      copy from an online bookstore, but sometimes there is
      a wait.<br><br>�<< While pneumatic can
      receive the �perfection� of the �marriage� already in the
      cosmos, the psychics who are saved must await their
      perfection as an eschatological event.�
      >><br><br>Interesting, is this a conclusion that Pagels seems to draw,
      is this from the heresiologists, or is this a belief
      Herakleiton expresses directly? Or is it made clear in the
      text?�<br><br>Good question, because in this passage, we see not
      only Heracleon�s view, but also that of Theodotus. As
      I described in my Message #5395, there was
      differing opinion on this issue. Of course, we would expect
      Irenaeus to be contrary, now wouldn�t we?
      <br><br>Interesting here though is that it appears that Pagels is
      also delivering HER opinion ~<br>�That these �psychic
      garments� are excluded from the pleroma does not
      necessarily mean that the psychics themselves are excluded;
      *I believe * the evidence indicates that they are
      not. _All_ who are finally reunited with the Father,
      psychics and pneumatics alike, must �put off� the psychic
      elements before they can enter his presence.�<br><br>So,
      Pagels seems to base her belief on �evidence� of
      Heracleon and Theodotus. Theodotus actually describes in
      detail the reunion of the called and the elect into one
      ecclesia. The �marriage feast� allows psychics and
      pneumatics to get to know each other, and distinctions of
      �psychic� and �pneumatic� become obliterated. Eventually in
      this process all the participants divest themselves of
      their �psychic� elements, and these �garments� remain
      outside the pleroma with that ole demiurge who originally
      bestowed them.<br><br>Now, Irenaeus alternatively
      describes the pneumatic marriage as exclusive, not
      inclusive. He implies that the psychics themselves, rather
      than just their souls (psychic garments), remain
      outside the pleroma.<br><br>Elaine Pagels writes, �Here I
      suggest only that the version Irenaeus gives in AH1.7.1
      betrays polemical distortion, while Theodotus� version
      concurs with Irenaeus� own statements in AH 1.6 and 8,
      and with the evidence from Heracleon.� (pg.
      96)<br><br>She also mentions, �Detailed examination of these
      texts must be deferred to a forthcoming article.� (E.
      Pagels, �Conflicting Versions of Valentinian Eschatology:
      Irenaeus� Treatise vs. the Excerpts from
      Theodotus")<br><br>So, Tony, in the end, who knows? I suppose we can
      only speculate at this point, in spite of �evidence.�
      ;-)<br><br>Cari
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