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Universal gnosticism.

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  • D.
    As the son of an alchemist and as being derived from Cathar s, I have been a life long gnostic. I see gnostic thought in virtually all cultures and religions.
    Message 1 of 8 , Apr 11, 2010
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      As the son of an alchemist and as being derived from Cathar's, I have been a life long gnostic. I see gnostic thought in virtually all cultures and religions. Mystics from the most ancient times until now have spoke of the Divine in ourselves. The Krst (Christ) goes back to perhaps 10,000 B.C. I often see that many that are showing interest in gnostic thought have long developed ideas that are formative from exposure to proto-gospel or dogmatic religions. The concept of giving up the ever cormforting Jesus the god/man for the idea of the indwelling Christ spirit is often met with dismay. As Paul said " I will travail with you my little children until the Christ be formed in you". Paul never met a man named Jesus. Plato was quite gnostic and by formulating an expanded concept of the Egyptian LOGOS, he was perhaps Christian. To truly embrace gnostic thought and development of internal light. The Ego must be resolved ad the mind truly opened. All gnostic writings are merely myths and are accepted as such by nearly all gnostics. Reading to literally into gnostic writtings often cover over the revealation of the intended message. And reading is no substitute for the knowledge of true gnostic experiences. The road to these experiences are through studies, prayers and meditation. I often in my works have ran across persons who read one Pagels book and have decided that they are now gnostic. Gnosticism is a way of life and a practice, not a decision without experience. Just some ideas from an old gnostic. Peace to all!
    • Ank Kelly
      Hi D I like what you say about ersatz gnostics. Many are the paths - of which Krishnamurti says that truth is a pathless land - which incarnated souls follow
      Message 2 of 8 , Apr 12, 2010
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        Hi D

        I like what you say about 'ersatz' gnostics. Many are the paths - of which Krishnamurti says that truth is a pathless land - which incarnated souls follow to journey on. I was born - maybe by my own design to wake up faster - in a a family that followed a very dogmatic branch of literalist christianity and swore off that in a private convo with god at the age of 8. 

        At 14 I was introduced to Plato, which was an eye opener for me, we studied him in school as part of our greek lessons.

        As a young adult I delved into spiritualism, maybe to spite my mother who warned me of devils and cavorting, and learned about integrity if one sees more than others - or thinks one does, where integrity is unfortunately not the same as showing the 'blind' how much one 'knows'. I also had some 'lessons' there which taught me that being thus inclined is not a blessing, but more of a responsibility what NOT to say and humility for being given 'grace' of witnessing. I hope this does not sound pompous. I could have been all of these impostors, however, my integrity keeps getting in the way, LOL.

        What you say about the universalism of gnostics is true, in the sense that I recognise a lot from the buddhist practice that I followed for about 16 years. One of the principles is 'to observe one's mind and find 3,000 worlds within'. Another is that 'one surroundings and one are two but not two'.

        Recently I have been studying the mayan calendar prophecies, by which I do not mean the 21 december 12 stuff, but Calleman's studies about the mayan calendar as a Spritual Development system, which come remarkably close to - and maybe just another way of describing - the unfathomable truth in all of its impeccability.

        Unfortunately - again this is NOT pomposity - where I would really like to engage in philosophical discussions and comparisons - on many of the associated lists I encounter the followers of idols of new ageism aka 'fluffy bunnies' and their ' temple silver changers'.

        Instead of kicking the tables as the allegorical Jesus did, or run the risk of becoming a nominee on the list of yet another 'ersatz guru' and getting lost in labelism, I have joined this list in the hope to enjoy some inspiring exchanges of opinions to look forward to.

        A last thing about myself: I suffer from almost an inability to remember writings verbatim, but tend to look instead of what unites rather than that which divides, because the latter is imho so pointless and destructive. I do remember most of the parables from the Bible, the story of the seeding, the time in the desert, beams and splinters, seeing and hearing, the positive stuff.

        I like to approach stuff with humor, especially my own foibles!

        Ank

        laughing about yourself  can be a source of great and enduring fun!


        --- On Mon, 12/4/10, D. <nazgno@...> wrote:

        From: D. <nazgno@...>
        Subject: [Gnosticism2] Universal gnosticism.
        To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Monday, 12 April, 2010, 6:15

         

        As the son of an alchemist and as being derived from Cathar's, I have been a life long gnostic. I see gnostic thought in virtually all cultures and religions. Mystics from the most ancient times until now have spoke of the Divine in ourselves. The Krst (Christ) goes back to perhaps 10,000 B.C. I often see that many that are showing interest in gnostic thought have long developed ideas that are formative from exposure to proto-gospel or dogmatic religions. The concept of giving up the ever cormforting Jesus the god/man for the idea of the indwelling Christ spirit is often met with dismay. As Paul said " I will travail with you my little children until the Christ be formed in you". Paul never met a man named Jesus. Plato was quite gnostic and by formulating an expanded concept of the Egyptian LOGOS, he was perhaps Christian. To truly embrace gnostic thought and development of internal light. The Ego must be resolved ad the mind truly opened. All gnostic writings are merely myths and are accepted as such by nearly all gnostics. Reading to literally into gnostic writtings often cover over the revealation of the intended message. And reading is no substitute for the knowledge of true gnostic experiences. The road to these experiences are through studies, prayers and meditation. I often in my works have ran across persons who read one Pagels book and have decided that they are now gnostic. Gnosticism is a way of life and a practice, not a decision without experience. Just some ideas from an old gnostic. Peace to all!

      • lady_caritas
        D. and Ank, thank you for sharing your fascinating backgrounds and thoughts. Of course, in this group, we focus on relating our discussions specifically to the
        Message 3 of 8 , Apr 12, 2010
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          D. and Ank, thank you for sharing your fascinating backgrounds and thoughts.

          Of course, in this group, we focus on relating our discussions specifically to the ancient Gnostics.

          From what we know about the ancient Sethians or Valentinians, for instance, how do you think they would have viewed a concept expressed here about "universal gnosticism"?

          Cari


          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Ank Kelly <ciberwytch@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi D
          >
          > I like what you say about 'ersatz' gnostics. Many are the paths - of which Krishnamurti says that truth is a pathless land - which incarnated souls follow to journey on. I was born - maybe by my own design to wake up faster - in a a family that followed a very dogmatic branch of literalist christianity and swore off that in a private convo with god at the age of 8. 
          >
          > At 14 I was introduced to Plato, which was an eye opener for me, we studied him in school as part of our greek lessons.
          >
          > As a young adult I delved into spiritualism, maybe to spite my mother who warned me of devils and cavorting, and learned about integrity if one sees more than others - or thinks one does, where integrity is unfortunately not the same as showing the 'blind' how much one 'knows'. I also had some 'lessons' there which taught me that being thus inclined is not a blessing, but more of a responsibility what NOT to say and humility for being given 'grace' of witnessing. I hope this does not sound pompous. I could have been all of these impostors, however, my integrity keeps getting in the way, LOL.
          >
          > What you say about the universalism of gnostics is true, in the sense that I recognise a lot from the buddhist practice that I followed for about 16 years. One of the principles is 'to observe one's mind and find 3,000 worlds within'. Another is that 'one surroundings and one are two but not two'.
          >
          > Recently I have been studying the mayan calendar prophecies, by which I do not mean the 21 december 12 stuff, but Calleman's studies about the mayan calendar as a Spritual Development system, which come remarkably close to - and maybe just another way of describing - the unfathomable truth in all of its impeccability.
          >
          > Unfortunately - again this is NOT pomposity - where I would really like to engage in philosophical discussions and comparisons - on many of the associated lists I encounter the followers of idols of new ageism aka 'fluffy bunnies' and their ' temple silver changers'.
          >
          > Instead of kicking the tables as the allegorical Jesus did, or run the risk of becoming a nominee on the list of yet another 'ersatz guru' and getting lost in labelism, I have joined this list in the hope to enjoy some inspiring exchanges of opinions to look forward to.
          >
          > A last thing about myself: I suffer from almost an inability to remember writings verbatim, but tend to look instead of what unites rather than that which divides, because the latter is imho so pointless and destructive. I do remember most of the parables from the Bible, the story of the seeding, the time in the desert, beams and splinters, seeing and hearing, the positive stuff.
          >
          > I like to approach stuff with humor, especially my own foibles!
          >
          > Ank
          >
          > laughing about yourself  can be a source of great and enduring fun!
          >
          > --- On Mon, 12/4/10, D. <nazgno@...> wrote:
          >
          > From: D. <nazgno@...>
          > Subject: [Gnosticism2] Universal gnosticism.
          > To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Monday, 12 April, 2010, 6:15
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > As the son of an alchemist and as being derived from Cathar's, I have been a life long gnostic. I see gnostic thought in virtually all cultures and religions. Mystics from the most ancient times until now have spoke of the Divine in ourselves. The Krst (Christ) goes back to perhaps 10,000 B.C. I often see that many that are showing interest in gnostic thought have long developed ideas that are formative from exposure to proto-gospel or dogmatic religions. The concept of giving up the ever cormforting Jesus the god/man for the idea of the indwelling Christ spirit is often met with dismay. As Paul said " I will travail with you my little children until the Christ be formed in you". Paul never met a man named Jesus. Plato was quite gnostic and by formulating an expanded concept of the Egyptian LOGOS, he was perhaps Christian. To truly embrace gnostic thought and development of internal light. The Ego must be resolved ad the mind truly opened.
          > All gnostic writings are merely myths and are accepted as such by nearly all gnostics. Reading to literally into gnostic writtings often cover over the revealation of the intended message. And reading is no substitute for the knowledge of true gnostic experiences. The road to these experiences are through studies, prayers and meditation. I often in my works have ran across persons who read one Pagels book and have decided that they are now gnostic. Gnosticism is a way of life and a practice, not a decision without experience. Just some ideas from an old gnostic. Peace to all!
          >
        • Tommy
          To Ank / and D. nazgno [from tburns2012/tommy] regarding the first comment quote thing.: I find your below comments very refreshing. Finally a seeker of
          Message 4 of 8 , Apr 12, 2010
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            To Ank / and D. nazgno       [from tburns2012/tommy] regarding the first comment quote thing.:

            I find your below comments very refreshing. Finally a seeker of knowledge with a sense of humor! Oy Vay!
            Now I'm just an old Goy but I also see many close parallels between our backgrounds {funny, I've found that happens with almost all I meet that have this inner desire to think for themselves}.
            I observed things in my parents 'Christian' church that did not jibe. Living as I did in North Mississippi during the fifties and sixties I need not point out what many of them were.
            I brought some of this up to my father and told him I would only be going there to please him and Mom. When we moved to the 'big' city fifteen miles away and i had reached the 'old age' of fourteen these problems 7 clashes of ideals were to much for me...and so i left Christianity, as I knew i knew, for good. {sidenote...so did my Pop and soon followed my Mom...pop became somewhat of a civil rights advocate much later, probably a first in Mississippi for a white man}
            In the Air Force, at 19, I found Plato...and from there I simply had to know more. I began devouring the philosophers and almost took Philosophy as a major at University. Thankfully I took broadcasting after becoming an engineer which lead me to a career traveling the world with CNN.
            Forty odd countries later and after years of discovering like minded peoples from every walk of life from the Middle East, Africa, Europe, South America and the Far East I found I have grown much and also that there is so much more to find and learn and read and more peoples to meet...
            Today I am retired and back in my now, beautiful state of Mississippi and reading, discussing, releasing light where I can...and riding my Harley with the love of my life...a lady now, i had last seen her when she was thirteen years old. {O dear, did I get lost somewhere? hahaha}
            I'll go ahead and close in a few sentences after I say something about the below blog from D. nazgno.
            But thank you, Ank {peace, too...lol}, for a breath of fresh air, after all...was not a man called Jesus of Nazareth the 'laughing god'?

            Okay, I must finish this up, eat and go take my Love for a spin down the Natchez Trace on Dovetail II, me new beautiful 2010 softtail heritage classic {ho-kay, even a gnostic can be a little materialistic, n'est pas?}
            I was delighted to read the below comments from D.nazgno. My blood line is through the Plantagenets, direct descendants of King Edward the 3rd. My families ancient Crest is still a five petaled rose. {Venus and Mars are alright tonight}
            I have been to France many times but never got to go to that beautiful southern region and often wondered if that wonderful sect has really survived. Can it be true? How I've always hoped so.
            What you said regarding the writings and such...I have no time to go into but am so glad i have found someone like myself who does not agonize over every single word of an old text to follow it to the letter. As you stated and I'll add to that my one cent that i try and tell those who first get caught up in this stuff...Man/Woman wrote those texts...not Ildaoboth nor Sophia nor Christos nor Zoe. They are meant to be {as old passed down stories and then written bibles are really meant to be} ways of comforting each other, of using prose, allegory and metaphors to explain what we are, who we are, etc.
            So many first timers who are seekers get wrapped up trying to understand before understanding can be attained. Heck, it happened to me in the beginning and for quite some time. In the 'early days', a gnostic had to be at least thirty five yrs. old to be able to hear/read the 'mystic, holy teachings'. That was a very late age back then but the wise teachers knew that one had to mature and learn other things before being able to grasp this stuff correctly. Not to mention that there were so many divergent 'gnostic sects' back then and that today the early seekers simply try and lump them all together. With all those divergent writings before one's plate it would even corn fuse  Spinoza and Char-din!
            dang, my enchillada's are getting cold & my bike is calling.
            Asti Lu-ago, largato.
            Tommy 2Lane

             
            ---' In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Ank Kelly <ciberwytch@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hi D
            >
            > "...I like what you say about 'ersatz' gnostics. Many are the paths - of which Krishnamurti says that truth is a pathless land - which incarnated souls follow to journey on. I was born - maybe by my own design to wake up faster - in a a family that followed a very dogmatic branch of literalist christianity and swore off that in a private convo with god at the age of 8. 
            >
            > At 14 I was introduced to Plato, which was an eye opener for me, we studied him in school as part of our greek lessons.
            >
            > As a young adult I delved into spiritualism, maybe to spite my mother who warned me of devils and cavorting, and learned about integrity if one sees more than others - or thinks one does, where integrity is unfortunately not the same as showing the 'blind' how much one 'knows'. I also had some 'lessons' there which taught me that being thus inclined is not a blessing, but more of a responsibility what NOT to say and humility for being given 'grace' of witnessing. I hope this does not sound pompous. I could have been all of these impostors, however, my integrity keeps getting in the way, LOL.
            >
            > What you say about the universalism of gnostics is true, in the sense that I recognise a lot from the buddhist practice that I followed for about 16 years. One of the principles is 'to observe one's mind and find 3,000 worlds within'. Another is that 'one surroundings and one are two but not two'.
            >
            > Recently I have been studying the mayan calendar prophecies, by which I do not mean the 21 december 12 stuff, but Calleman's studies about the mayan calendar as a Spritual Development system, which come remarkably close to - and maybe just another way of describing - the unfathomable truth in all of its impeccability.
            >
            > Unfortunately - again this is NOT pomposity - where I would really like to engage in philosophical discussions and comparisons - on many of the associated lists I encounter the followers of idols of new ageism aka 'fluffy bunnies' and their ' temple silver changers'.
            >
            > Instead of kicking the tables as the allegorical Jesus did, or run the risk of becoming a nominee on the list of yet another 'ersatz guru' and getting lost in labelism, I have joined this list in the hope to enjoy some inspiring exchanges of opinions to look forward to.
            >
            > A last thing about myself: I suffer from almost an inability to remember writings verbatim, but tend to look instead of what unites rather than that which divides, because the latter is imho so pointless and destructive. I do remember most of the parables from the Bible, the story of the seeding, the time in the desert, beams and splinters, seeing and hearing, the positive stuff. >
            > I like to approach stuff with humor, especially my own foibles!>
            > Ank>
            > laughing about yourself  can be a source of great and enduring fun! " >


            >
            > --- On Mon, 12/4/10, D. nazgno@... wrote:
            >
            > From: D. nazgno@...
            > Subject: [Gnosticism2] Universal gnosticism.
            > To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
            > Date: Monday, 12 April, 2010, 6:15>

            > As the son of an alchemist and as being derived from Cathar's, I have been a life long gnostic. I see gnostic thought in virtually all cultures and religions. Mystics from the most ancient times until now have spoke of the Divine in ourselves. The Krst (Christ) goes back to perhaps 10,000 B.C. I often see that many that are showing interest in gnostic thought have long developed ideas that are formative from exposure to proto-gospel or dogmatic religions. The concept of giving up the ever cormforting Jesus the god/man for the idea of the indwelling Christ spirit is often met with dismay. As Paul said " I will travail with you my little children until the Christ be formed in you". Paul never met a man named Jesus. Plato was quite gnostic and by formulating an expanded concept of the Egyptian LOGOS, he was perhaps Christian. To truly embrace gnostic thought and development of internal light. The Ego must be resolved ad the mind truly opened.
            > All gnostic writings are merely myths and are accepted as such by nearly all gnostics. Reading to literally into gnostic writtings often cover over the revealation of the intended message. And reading is no substitute for the knowledge of true gnostic experiences. The road to these experiences are through studies, prayers and meditation. I often in my works have ran across persons who read one Pagels book and have decided that they are now gnostic. Gnosticism is a way of life and a practice, not a decision without experience. Just some ideas from an old gnostic. Peace to all!
            >
          • Tom Urash
            I like your attitude, Ank.... refreshing. I m really weary of the virtual(?) commercialism and bandwagon attitudes of the fluffy bunny people. I m glad
            Message 5 of 8 , Apr 12, 2010
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              I like your attitude, Ank.... refreshing. I'm really weary of the virtual(?) commercialism and bandwagon attitudes of the "fluffy bunny" people. I'm glad they're entertained, but I just can't engage them at a level that's particularly meaningful to me.
               
              Tom U.

              --- On Mon, 4/12/10, Ank Kelly <ciberwytch@...> wrote:

              From: Ank Kelly <ciberwytch@...>
              Subject: Re: [Gnosticism2] Universal gnosticism.
              To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Monday, April 12, 2010, 2:02 PM

               
              Hi D

              I like what you say about 'ersatz' gnostics. Many are the paths - of which Krishnamurti says that truth is a pathless land - which incarnated souls follow to journey on. I was born - maybe by my own design to wake up faster - in a a family that followed a very dogmatic branch of literalist christianity and swore off that in a private convo with god at the age of 8. 

              At 14 I was introduced to Plato, which was an eye opener for me, we studied him in school as part of our greek lessons.

              As a young adult I delved into spiritualism, maybe to spite my mother who warned me of devils and cavorting, and learned about integrity if one sees more than others - or thinks one does, where integrity is unfortunately not the same as showing the 'blind' how much one 'knows'. I also had some 'lessons' there which taught me that being thus inclined is not a blessing, but more of a responsibility what NOT to say and humility for being given 'grace' of witnessing. I hope this does not sound pompous. I could have been all of these impostors, however, my integrity keeps getting in the way, LOL.

              What you say about the universalism of gnostics is true, in the sense that I recognise a lot from the buddhist practice that I followed for about 16 years. One of the principles is 'to observe one's mind and find 3,000 worlds within'. Another is that 'one surroundings and one are two but not two'.

              Recently I have been studying the mayan calendar prophecies, by which I do not mean the 21 december 12 stuff, but Calleman's studies about the mayan calendar as a Spritual Development system, which come remarkably close to - and maybe just another way of describing - the unfathomable truth in all of its impeccability.

              Unfortunately - again this is NOT pomposity - where I would really like to engage in philosophical discussions and comparisons - on many of the associated lists I encounter the followers of idols of new ageism aka 'fluffy bunnies' and their ' temple silver changers'.

              Instead of kicking the tables as the allegorical Jesus did, or run the risk of becoming a nominee on the list of yet another 'ersatz guru' and getting lost in labelism, I have joined this list in the hope to enjoy some inspiring exchanges of opinions to look forward to.

              A last thing about myself: I suffer from almost an inability to remember writings verbatim, but tend to look instead of what unites rather than that which divides, because the latter is imho so pointless and destructive. I do remember most of the parables from the Bible, the story of the seeding, the time in the desert, beams and splinters, seeing and hearing, the positive stuff.

              I like to approach stuff with humor, especially my own foibles!

              Ank

              laughing about yourself  can be a source of great and enduring fun!


              --- On Mon, 12/4/10, D. <nazgno@yahoo. com> wrote:

              From: D. <nazgno@yahoo. com>
              Subject: [Gnosticism2] Universal gnosticism.
              To: gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com
              Date: Monday, 12 April, 2010, 6:15

               
              As the son of an alchemist and as being derived from Cathar's, I have been a life long gnostic. I see gnostic thought in virtually all cultures and religions. Mystics from the most ancient times until now have spoke of the Divine in ourselves. The Krst (Christ) goes back to perhaps 10,000 B.C. I often see that many that are showing interest in gnostic thought have long developed ideas that are formative from exposure to proto-gospel or dogmatic religions. The concept of giving up the ever cormforting Jesus the god/man for the idea of the indwelling Christ spirit is often met with dismay. As Paul said " I will travail with you my little children until the Christ be formed in you". Paul never met a man named Jesus. Plato was quite gnostic and by formulating an expanded concept of the Egyptian LOGOS, he was perhaps Christian. To truly embrace gnostic thought and development of internal light. The Ego must be resolved ad the mind truly opened. All gnostic writings are merely myths and are accepted as such by nearly all gnostics. Reading to literally into gnostic writtings often cover over the revealation of the intended message. And reading is no substitute for the knowledge of true gnostic experiences. The road to these experiences are through studies, prayers and meditation. I often in my works have ran across persons who read one Pagels book and have decided that they are now gnostic. Gnosticism is a way of life and a practice, not a decision without experience. Just some ideas from an old gnostic. Peace to all!


            • Ank Kelly
              Hi Cari, From what I have just read about the Valentians, the concept of universal gnosticism would have been very well received, since they apparently used
              Message 6 of 8 , Apr 12, 2010
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                Hi Cari,

                From what I have just read about the Valentians, the concept of 'universal gnosticism' would have been very well received, since they apparently used their own genius to come to their own conclusions. I already really like the idea of this!

                If I may, we are often told how 'ignorant' people used to be in the past and how fortunate we are now. really? reading about Valentians, I would beg to differ. Reading Plato who is no longer taught in schools, because it is seen as a waste of time together with Greek and Latin, enough said already.

                And then of course there is the ability to read between lines and discern meanings within meanings. And there are probably stages to that as well.

                Ank

                laughing about yourself  can be a source of great and enduring fun!


                --- On Mon, 12/4/10, lady_caritas <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

                From: lady_caritas <no_reply@yahoogroups.com>
                Subject: [Gnosticism2] Re: Universal gnosticism.
                To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Monday, 12 April, 2010, 15:37

                 

                D. and Ank, thank you for sharing your fascinating backgrounds and thoughts.

                Of course, in this group, we focus on relating our discussions specifically to the ancient Gnostics.

                From what we know about the ancient Sethians or Valentinians, for instance, how do you think they would have viewed a concept expressed here about "universal gnosticism"?

                Cari

                --- In gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com, Ank Kelly <ciberwytch@ ...> wrote:
                >
                > Hi D
                >
                > I like what you say about 'ersatz' gnostics. Many are the paths - of which Krishnamurti says that truth is a pathless land - which incarnated souls follow to journey on. I was born - maybe by my own design to wake up faster - in a a family that followed a very dogmatic branch of literalist christianity and swore off that in a private convo with god at the age of 8. 
                >
                > At 14 I was introduced to Plato, which was an eye opener for me, we studied him in school as part of our greek lessons.
                >
                > As a young adult I delved into spiritualism, maybe to spite my mother who warned me of devils and cavorting, and learned about integrity if one sees more than others - or thinks one does, where integrity is unfortunately not the same as showing the 'blind' how much one 'knows'. I also had some 'lessons' there which taught me that being thus inclined is not a blessing, but more of a responsibility what NOT to say and humility for being given 'grace' of witnessing. I hope this does not sound pompous. I could have been all of these impostors, however, my integrity keeps getting in the way, LOL.
                >
                > What you say about the universalism of gnostics is true, in the sense that I recognise a lot from the buddhist practice that I followed for about 16 years. One of the principles is 'to observe one's mind and find 3,000 worlds within'. Another is that 'one surroundings and one are two but not two'.
                >
                > Recently I have been studying the mayan calendar prophecies, by which I do not mean the 21 december 12 stuff, but Calleman's studies about the mayan calendar as a Spritual Development system, which come remarkably close to - and maybe just another way of describing - the unfathomable truth in all of its impeccability.
                >
                > Unfortunately - again this is NOT pomposity - where I would really like to engage in philosophical discussions and comparisons - on many of the associated lists I encounter the followers of idols of new ageism aka 'fluffy bunnies' and their ' temple silver changers'.
                >
                > Instead of kicking the tables as the allegorical Jesus did, or run the risk of becoming a nominee on the list of yet another 'ersatz guru' and getting lost in labelism, I have joined this list in the hope to enjoy some inspiring exchanges of opinions to look forward to.
                >
                > A last thing about myself: I suffer from almost an inability to remember writings verbatim, but tend to look instead of what unites rather than that which divides, because the latter is imho so pointless and destructive. I do remember most of the parables from the Bible, the story of the seeding, the time in the desert, beams and splinters, seeing and hearing, the positive stuff.
                >
                > I like to approach stuff with humor, especially my own foibles!
                >
                > Ank
                >
                > laughing about yourself  can be a source of great and enduring fun!
                >
                > --- On Mon, 12/4/10, D. <nazgno@...> wrote:
                >
                > From: D. <nazgno@...>
                > Subject: [Gnosticism2] Universal gnosticism.
                > To: gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com
                > Date: Monday, 12 April, 2010, 6:15
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >  
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > As the son of an alchemist and as being derived from Cathar's, I have been a life long gnostic. I see gnostic thought in virtually all cultures and religions. Mystics from the most ancient times until now have spoke of the Divine in ourselves. The Krst (Christ) goes back to perhaps 10,000 B.C. I often see that many that are showing interest in gnostic thought have long developed ideas that are formative from exposure to proto-gospel or dogmatic religions. The concept of giving up the ever cormforting Jesus the god/man for the idea of the indwelling Christ spirit is often met with dismay. As Paul said " I will travail with you my little children until the Christ be formed in you". Paul never met a man named Jesus. Plato was quite gnostic and by formulating an expanded concept of the Egyptian LOGOS, he was perhaps Christian. To truly embrace gnostic thought and development of internal light. The Ego must be resolved ad the mind truly opened.
                > All gnostic writings are merely myths and are accepted as such by nearly all gnostics. Reading to literally into gnostic writtings often cover over the revealation of the intended message. And reading is no substitute for the knowledge of true gnostic experiences. The road to these experiences are through studies, prayers and meditation. I often in my works have ran across persons who read one Pagels book and have decided that they are now gnostic. Gnosticism is a way of life and a practice, not a decision without experience. Just some ideas from an old gnostic. Peace to all!
                >

              • Ank Kelly
                Hi Tom Yes, there is a very disconcerting parallel between that and the old Roman adago of bread and circuses and how some things just don t seem to change.
                Message 7 of 8 , Apr 12, 2010
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                  Hi Tom

                  Yes, there is a very disconcerting parallel between that and the old Roman adago of 'bread and circuses' and how some things just don't seem to change. The frenzy is ever increasing. Court TV? what is the difference between that and public trials of the Middle Ages? Oh, but we are more 'civilised now! Really? And so it goes on. Thank goodness for humor!

                  On another level it is a game of sorts. It is different in the eyes of every beholder, the fortune of fame that is fickle and impermanent. I have always wondered why it is so easy to influence people that way and even seen opportunities to do this, but it is very unclean to do this.

                  That and many other things made me wonder why I was different, saw things differently and that - in the modern jungle of many 'choices' somehow set me on the road - so far it has been a very interesting journey, pantha rei, shall we say?

                  Ank

                  laughing about yourself  can be a source of great and enduring fun!


                  --- On Mon, 12/4/10, Tom Urash <f8s42nutsun@...> wrote:

                  From: Tom Urash <f8s42nutsun@...>
                  Subject: Re: [Gnosticism2] Universal gnosticism.
                  To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Monday, 12 April, 2010, 21:16

                   

                  I like your attitude, Ank.... refreshing. I'm really weary of the virtual(?) commercialism and bandwagon attitudes of the "fluffy bunny" people. I'm glad they're entertained, but I just can't engage them at a level that's particularly meaningful to me.
                   
                  Tom U.

                  --- On Mon, 4/12/10, Ank Kelly <ciberwytch@btintern et.com> wrote:

                  From: Ank Kelly <ciberwytch@btintern et.com>
                  Subject: Re: [Gnosticism2] Universal gnosticism.
                  To: gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com
                  Date: Monday, April 12, 2010, 2:02 PM

                   
                  Hi D

                  I like what you say about 'ersatz' gnostics. Many are the paths - of which Krishnamurti says that truth is a pathless land - which incarnated souls follow to journey on. I was born - maybe by my own design to wake up faster - in a a family that followed a very dogmatic branch of literalist christianity and swore off that in a private convo with god at the age of 8. 

                  At 14 I was introduced to Plato, which was an eye opener for me, we studied him in school as part of our greek lessons.

                  As a young adult I delved into spiritualism, maybe to spite my mother who warned me of devils and cavorting, and learned about integrity if one sees more than others - or thinks one does, where integrity is unfortunately not the same as showing the 'blind' how much one 'knows'. I also had some 'lessons' there which taught me that being thus inclined is not a blessing, but more of a responsibility what NOT to say and humility for being given 'grace' of witnessing. I hope this does not sound pompous. I could have been all of these impostors, however, my integrity keeps getting in the way, LOL.

                  What you say about the universalism of gnostics is true, in the sense that I recognise a lot from the buddhist practice that I followed for about 16 years. One of the principles is 'to observe one's mind and find 3,000 worlds within'. Another is that 'one surroundings and one are two but not two'.

                  Recently I have been studying the mayan calendar prophecies, by which I do not mean the 21 december 12 stuff, but Calleman's studies about the mayan calendar as a Spritual Development system, which come remarkably close to - and maybe just another way of describing - the unfathomable truth in all of its impeccability.

                  Unfortunately - again this is NOT pomposity - where I would really like to engage in philosophical discussions and comparisons - on many of the associated lists I encounter the followers of idols of new ageism aka 'fluffy bunnies' and their ' temple silver changers'.

                  Instead of kicking the tables as the allegorical Jesus did, or run the risk of becoming a nominee on the list of yet another 'ersatz guru' and getting lost in labelism, I have joined this list in the hope to enjoy some inspiring exchanges of opinions to look forward to.

                  A last thing about myself: I suffer from almost an inability to remember writings verbatim, but tend to look instead of what unites rather than that which divides, because the latter is imho so pointless and destructive. I do remember most of the parables from the Bible, the story of the seeding, the time in the desert, beams and splinters, seeing and hearing, the positive stuff.

                  I like to approach stuff with humor, especially my own foibles!

                  Ank

                  laughing about yourself  can be a source of great and enduring fun!


                  --- On Mon, 12/4/10, D. <nazgno@yahoo. com> wrote:

                  From: D. <nazgno@yahoo. com>
                  Subject: [Gnosticism2] Universal gnosticism.
                  To: gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com
                  Date: Monday, 12 April, 2010, 6:15

                   
                  As the son of an alchemist and as being derived from Cathar's, I have been a life long gnostic. I see gnostic thought in virtually all cultures and religions. Mystics from the most ancient times until now have spoke of the Divine in ourselves. The Krst (Christ) goes back to perhaps 10,000 B.C. I often see that many that are showing interest in gnostic thought have long developed ideas that are formative from exposure to proto-gospel or dogmatic religions. The concept of giving up the ever cormforting Jesus the god/man for the idea of the indwelling Christ spirit is often met with dismay. As Paul said " I will travail with you my little children until the Christ be formed in you". Paul never met a man named Jesus. Plato was quite gnostic and by formulating an expanded concept of the Egyptian LOGOS, he was perhaps Christian. To truly embrace gnostic thought and development of internal light. The Ego must be resolved ad the mind truly opened. All gnostic writings are merely myths and are accepted as such by nearly all gnostics. Reading to literally into gnostic writtings often cover over the revealation of the intended message. And reading is no substitute for the knowledge of true gnostic experiences. The road to these experiences are through studies, prayers and meditation. I often in my works have ran across persons who read one Pagels book and have decided that they are now gnostic. Gnosticism is a way of life and a practice, not a decision without experience. Just some ideas from an old gnostic. Peace to all!


                • Ank Kelly
                  Hi Tommy, Nice to meet you too. As to your Harley, that is great! Enjoy this as we are meant to enjoy life - and death - and not put onto this earth to suffer.
                  Message 8 of 8 , Apr 12, 2010
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                    Hi Tommy,

                    Nice to meet you too. As to your Harley, that is great! Enjoy this as we are meant to enjoy life - and death - and not put onto this earth to suffer. As Don Juan says to Castaneda in one of his books: 'Follow the Road with Heart'.

                    My parents left the church at the same age I gave up Buddhism - mid to late 40s - I recall my Mom saying that 'religion is something one grows out of', very true words they well were! End of psychic initiation. For me it was the fate of the catholics that clinged it, for I found it a bit illogical that 10,000 christian reformed people would go to heaven and the rest of the planet would not, and especially not Catholics, because of idolatry? Did they know the mind of the Unknowable? No, I concluded for myself and that was also my own responsibilty after this life if I had to defend myself as to my choice to stray from a flock.

                    Maybe this is the predestination that Tom U refers to? I found the hairsplitting irksome, a waste of time, and too negative.

                    I was not allowed to study philosophy, nor art, because it was not 'useful'. Last year though I finished an honours degree in mainly IT with the Open University, that was a study reflecting a road with Heart.Funny how I learned a lot about orderliness studying programming. The ways and means are amazing, care we to look....! And I already had the analyitcal skills thanks to having learned Greek and Latin. I would love to carry on with a Masters in Philosophy, unfortunately I cannot afford it. then again, does book wisdom actually prove anything? Sorry, I am a bit of an iconoclast.

                    I teach people from all over the world English and Maths, everyone gets along with each other, no matter what their religions are. It is fascinating and funny, I used to travel the world, now the world comes to me in my classes, I am very grateful for this. I come from a culture that was pretty bigoted as I myself also was, so these people have all been my teachers.

                    It is nice to travel a lot, inwards and outwards. I always loved the cultures from China and Japan and felt  and still feel very much at ease with eastern philosophy. As to inwardness, Jesus mentions somewhere to not build a house on sand, but on rock (because what is the point if you invest in lots of material things, but haven't found solace in your spiritual life?), and also that if you knock, the door shall be opened. In the 80s I trained to do past life regression therapy, which was fascinating and just another natural response to my infernal curiosity. The experiences I had there answered a lot of questions and threw up even more. It went some ways to answer a question I have had ever since I can remember as to who I was, why am I here and what is the purpose of living as a human being.

                    I have absolutely no idea about my biological ancestry except it is mostly germanic with possibly some Chinese of Japanese thrown in, given that my Mom looked very oriental, but know a bit about my past lives. research evertything and keep the good stuff. I have a family.

                    As to material living I am often reminded of the lilies on the field, one of my great loves is growing crops and I do dearly love nature, which in its beauty always reminds me - together with birdsong - of the great It Is.

                    Ank



                    laughing about yourself  can be a source of great and enduring fun!


                    --- On Mon, 12/4/10, Tommy <tburns2012@...> wrote:

                    From: Tommy <tburns2012@...>
                    Subject: [Gnosticism2] Re: Universal gnosticism.
                    To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
                    Date: Monday, 12 April, 2010, 20:49

                     

                    To Ank / and D. nazgno       [from tburns2012/tommy] regarding the first comment quote thing.:

                    I find your below comments very refreshing. Finally a seeker of knowledge with a sense of humor! Oy Vay!
                    Now I'm just an old Goy but I also see many close parallels between our backgrounds {funny, I've found that happens with almost all I meet that have this inner desire to think for themselves}.
                    I observed things in my parents 'Christian' church that did not jibe. Living as I did in North Mississippi during the fifties and sixties I need not point out what many of them were.
                    I brought some of this up to my father and told him I would only be going there to please him and Mom. When we moved to the 'big' city fifteen miles away and i had reached the 'old age' of fourteen these problems 7 clashes of ideals were to much for me...and so i left Christianity, as I knew i knew, for good. {sidenote... so did my Pop and soon followed my Mom...pop became somewhat of a civil rights advocate much later, probably a first in Mississippi for a white man}
                    In the Air Force, at 19, I found Plato...and from there I simply had to know more. I began devouring the philosophers and almost took Philosophy as a major at University. Thankfully I took broadcasting after becoming an engineer which lead me to a career traveling the world with CNN.
                    Forty odd countries later and after years of discovering like minded peoples from every walk of life from the Middle East, Africa, Europe, South America and the Far East I found I have grown much and also that there is so much more to find and learn and read and more peoples to meet...
                    Today I am retired and back in my now, beautiful state of Mississippi and reading, discussing, releasing light where I can...and riding my Harley with the love of my life...a lady now, i had last seen her when she was thirteen years old. {O dear, did I get lost somewhere? hahaha}
                    I'll go ahead and close in a few sentences after I say something about the below blog from D. nazgno.
                    But thank you, Ank {peace, too...lol}, for a breath of fresh air, after all...was not a man called Jesus of Nazareth the 'laughing god'?

                    Okay, I must finish this up, eat and go take my Love for a spin down the Natchez Trace on Dovetail II, me new beautiful 2010 softtail heritage classic {ho-kay, even a gnostic can be a little materialistic, n'est pas?}
                    I was delighted to read the below comments from D.nazgno. My blood line is through the Plantagenets, direct descendants of King Edward the 3rd. My families ancient Crest is still a five petaled rose. {Venus and Mars are alright tonight}
                    I have been to France many times but never got to go to that beautiful southern region and often wondered if that wonderful sect has really survived. Can it be true? How I've always hoped so.
                    What you said regarding the writings and such...I have no time to go into but am so glad i have found someone like myself who does not agonize over every single word of an old text to follow it to the letter. As you stated and I'll add to that my one cent that i try and tell those who first get caught up in this stuff...Man/ Woman wrote those texts...not Ildaoboth nor Sophia nor Christos nor Zoe. They are meant to be {as old passed down stories and then written bibles are really meant to be} ways of comforting each other, of using prose, allegory and metaphors to explain what we are, who we are, etc.
                    So many first timers who are seekers get wrapped up trying to understand before understanding can be attained. Heck, it happened to me in the beginning and for quite some time. In the 'early days', a gnostic had to be at least thirty five yrs. old to be able to hear/read the 'mystic, holy teachings'. That was a very late age back then but the wise teachers knew that one had to mature and learn other things before being able to grasp this stuff correctly. Not to mention that there were so many divergent 'gnostic sects' back then and that today the early seekers simply try and lump them all together. With all those divergent writings before one's plate it would even corn fuse  Spinoza and Char-din!
                    dang, my enchillada's are getting cold & my bike is calling.
                    Asti Lu-ago, largato.
                    Tommy 2Lane

                     
                    ---' In gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com, Ank Kelly <ciberwytch@. ..> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi D
                    >
                    > "...I like what you say about 'ersatz' gnostics. Many are the paths - of which Krishnamurti says that truth is a pathless land - which incarnated souls follow to journey on. I was born - maybe by my own design to wake up faster - in a a family that followed a very dogmatic branch of literalist christianity and swore off that in a private convo with god at the age of 8. 
                    >
                    > At 14 I was introduced to Plato, which was an eye opener for me, we studied him in school as part of our greek lessons.
                    >
                    > As a young adult I delved into spiritualism, maybe to spite my mother who warned me of devils and cavorting, and learned about integrity if one sees more than others - or thinks one does, where integrity is unfortunately not the same as showing the 'blind' how much one 'knows'. I also had some 'lessons' there which taught me that being thus inclined is not a blessing, but more of a responsibility what NOT to say and humility for being given 'grace' of witnessing. I hope this does not sound pompous. I could have been all of these impostors, however, my integrity keeps getting in the way, LOL.
                    >
                    > What you say about the universalism of gnostics is true, in the sense that I recognise a lot from the buddhist practice that I followed for about 16 years. One of the principles is 'to observe one's mind and find 3,000 worlds within'. Another is that 'one surroundings and one are two but not two'.
                    >
                    > Recently I have been studying the mayan calendar prophecies, by which I do not mean the 21 december 12 stuff, but Calleman's studies about the mayan calendar as a Spritual Development system, which come remarkably close to - and maybe just another way of describing - the unfathomable truth in all of its impeccability.
                    >
                    > Unfortunately - again this is NOT pomposity - where I would really like to engage in philosophical discussions and comparisons - on many of the associated lists I encounter the followers of idols of new ageism aka 'fluffy bunnies' and their ' temple silver changers'.
                    >
                    > Instead of kicking the tables as the allegorical Jesus did, or run the risk of becoming a nominee on the list of yet another 'ersatz guru' and getting lost in labelism, I have joined this list in the hope to enjoy some inspiring exchanges of opinions to look forward to.
                    >
                    > A last thing about myself: I suffer from almost an inability to remember writings verbatim, but tend to look instead of what unites rather than that which divides, because the latter is imho so pointless and destructive. I do remember most of the parables from the Bible, the story of the seeding, the time in the desert, beams and splinters, seeing and hearing, the positive stuff. >
                    > I like to approach stuff with humor, especially my own foibles!>
                    > Ank>
                    > laughing about yourself  can be a source of great and enduring fun! " >


                    >
                    > --- On Mon, 12/4/10, D. nazgno@... wrote:
                    >
                    > From: D. nazgno@...
                    > Subject: [Gnosticism2] Universal gnosticism.
                    > To: gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com
                    > Date: Monday, 12 April, 2010, 6:15>

                    > As the son of an alchemist and as being derived from Cathar's, I have been a life long gnostic. I see gnostic thought in virtually all cultures and religions. Mystics from the most ancient times until now have spoke of the Divine in ourselves. The Krst (Christ) goes back to perhaps 10,000 B.C. I often see that many that are showing interest in gnostic thought have long developed ideas that are formative from exposure to proto-gospel or dogmatic religions. The concept of giving up the ever cormforting Jesus the god/man for the idea of the indwelling Christ spirit is often met with dismay. As Paul said " I will travail with you my little children until the Christ be formed in you". Paul never met a man named Jesus. Plato was quite gnostic and by formulating an expanded concept of the Egyptian LOGOS, he was perhaps Christian. To truly embrace gnostic thought and development of internal light. The Ego must be resolved ad the mind truly opened.
                    > All gnostic writings are merely myths and are accepted as such by nearly all gnostics. Reading to literally into gnostic writtings often cover over the revealation of the intended message. And reading is no substitute for the knowledge of true gnostic experiences. The road to these experiences are through studies, prayers and meditation. I often in my works have ran across persons who read one Pagels book and have decided that they are now gnostic. Gnosticism is a way of life and a practice, not a decision without experience. Just some ideas from an old gnostic. Peace to all!
                    >

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