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Re: Perfect -- "absolutely" speaking

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  • Ben
    ... ok, my apologies well I ve seen DL elsewhere.... clearly he really has no idea about Gnosticism but does that mean we shouldn t have patience? As Mani said
    Message 1 of 17 , Jun 1, 2009
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      > > > As you say though, evolution continues. I'm glad to know that
      > > > you'll be moving on (ever-improving god in tow). If by chance, some
      > > > miracle-working god SHOULD turn up and move you to post something
      > > > relevant to our forum, I'll be the first to offer an "Amen."
      > > >
      > > > Gerry
      > > >
      > >
      > > God is imperfect now? lol
      > > Is this not a case of taking gnostic cosmology literally and not reading between the lines?
      > >
      > > Although it is clear DL is largely discussing the demi urge without any real "knowledge" of the "Gnostic God"...
      > >
      > > If the "Gnostic God" is unknowable and ineffible and unamable and all the others.... how can one confortably say God is imperfect?
      > >
      > > Heh, that largely is the problem wioth grouops like this, it attempts to stick to academia, which is fine... but then questions like this one come up...
      > >
      > > from the overall perspective and focus of this group, it should be a none issue... correct me if I am wrong, but whether God is perfect or not, is outside the scope of this group entirely. We can comment on what the Gnostic texts say, which on the surface is a tale of imprfection.... but to make that as an absolute startement "God is imperfect" is going outside the group's focus into opinion....
      > >
      > > its like saying cheddar is better than gouda....
      > > I would personally argue that God is extremely perfect... everythign is the pleroma afterall... I like double gloucestishire myself...
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > Uh, Ben, I believe this post was strictly about DL's conception of God, which differs from the Gnostic source.
      >
      > Cari
      >
      ok, my apologies

      well I've seen DL elsewhere....

      clearly he really has no idea about Gnosticism

      but does that mean we shouldn't have patience?

      As Mani said "A drop of water cannot hurt an elephant"

      DL is clearly new to this, on his own admittance he used to be a literalist christian.....

      We all have to start somewhere....
    • lady_caritas
      ... No apologies necessary, Ben. We welcome newcomers, and we encourage discussion of Gnosticism on all levels. We respect that members have their own paths
      Message 2 of 17 , Jun 1, 2009
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        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Ben" <brbenjaminassisi@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >> >
        > >
        > > Uh, Ben, I believe this post was strictly about DL's conception of God, which differs from the Gnostic source.
        > >
        > > Cari
        > >
        > ok, my apologies
        >
        > well I've seen DL elsewhere....
        >
        > clearly he really has no idea about Gnosticism
        >
        > but does that mean we shouldn't have patience?
        >
        > As Mani said "A drop of water cannot hurt an elephant"
        >
        > DL is clearly new to this, on his own admittance he used to be a literalist christian.....
        >
        > We all have to start somewhere....
        >


        No apologies necessary, Ben.

        We welcome newcomers, and we encourage discussion of Gnosticism on all levels. We respect that members have their own paths they pursue, but we do require that at some point members do show interest in discussing or learning something about historical Gnosticism instead of continually using the opportunity to promote their own beliefs and preconceptions.

        I wish DL much fulfillment on his personal path.

        Cari
      • Gerry
        ... literalist christian..... ... Hey, Ben. I hope I can count on a progress report from you after you invite DL over to your own Yahoo group for some focused
        Message 3 of 17 , Jun 2, 2009
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          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Ben" <brbenjaminassisi@...> wrote:

          >
          >


          > ok, my apologies
          >
          > well I've seen DL elsewhere....
          >
          > clearly he really has no idea about Gnosticism
          >
          > but does that mean we shouldn't have patience?
          >
          > As Mani said "A drop of water cannot hurt an elephant"
          >
          > DL is clearly new to this, on his own admittance he used to be a literalist christian.....
          >
          > We all have to start somewhere....
          >

           

           

          Hey, Ben.  

          I hope I can count on a progress report from you after you invite DL over to your own Yahoo group for some focused discussion.  Please let us know how that patience works out for you.  

          Truth is, for anyone who cares, this person's first post here (one month ago) can be found spammed at numerous other sites across the Net.  I know I turned up at least 9 pages of Google results when I looked.  Considering he got anywhere from a one-day membership to two weeks at some of these groups, I personally think that his month-long run here was exceedingly generous.  Unfortunately, he was clearly NOT interested in engaging the subject matter that concerns our group.    

          For a long time now, the moderators of this forum have sought to make it a haven for anyone interested in talking about their experiences or interests in Gnosticism as the word was coined—in its historical context.  There are countless sites available out there that entertain plenty of other usages of that term.  Here, we do not.  While our goal has been to foster constructive dialogue on the subject, effective communication has sometimes been a stumbling block as we seek to bridge that chasm of confusion and misinformation.  Those efforts are only further hampered by certain dishonest and disreputable individuals who occasionally come here with no desire or capacity to respect our endeavors.    

          Just keep in mind that even though we walk over the troll, it's really the bridge that we're walking on.    

          Gerry

           

        • RYELL104
          More s the pity!!!   Richard More s the pity!!! Richard
          Message 4 of 17 , Jun 3, 2009
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            More's the pity!!!
             
            Richard

          • Ben
            ... heh , I find him overly simplistic bordering on innane myself... I was just pointing out we all start somewhere... but I agree for free flow of discussion,
            Message 5 of 17 , Jun 3, 2009
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              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Gerry" <gerryhsp@...> wrote:
              >

              >
              > Just keep in mind that even though we walk over the troll, it's
              > really the bridge that we're walking on.
              >
              > Gerry
              >
              heh , I find him overly simplistic bordering on innane myself...

              I was just pointing out we all start somewhere...

              but I agree for free flow of discussion, lest we wonder off into "ooh look its a kitten" land... we do need structure...
            • Will Brown
              Absolutely, this time through the realm of Gnosticism, I shall learn to speak your language. ~~~~willy ... look its a kitten land... we do need
              Message 6 of 17 , Jun 5, 2009
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                Absolutely, this time through the realm of Gnosticism, I shall learn to speak your language.    ~~~~willy


                --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Ben" <brbenjaminassisi@...> wrote:
                >
                > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Gerry" gerryhsp@ wrote:
                > >
                >
                > >
                > > Just keep in mind that even though we walk over the troll, it's
                > > really the bridge that we're walking on.
                > >
                > > Gerry
                > >
                > heh , I find him overly simplistic bordering on innane myself...
                >
                > I was just pointing out we all start somewhere...
                >
                > but I agree for free flow of discussion, lest we wonder off into "ooh look its a kitten" land... we do need structure...
                >
              • Will Brown
                So, how does one say hello in Gnostic? After that, we might get down to the creation of a Rosetta Stone of sorts... ~~~~willy ... to ... ooh
                Message 7 of 17 , Jun 6, 2009
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                  So, how does one say hello in Gnostic? After that, we might get down to the creation of a Rosetta Stone of sorts...   ~~~~willy

                  --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Will Brown" <wilbro99@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Absolutely, this time through the realm of Gnosticism, I shall learn to
                  > speak your language. ~~~~willy
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Ben" brbenjaminassisi@ wrote:
                  > >
                  > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Gerry" gerryhsp@ wrote:
                  > > >
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > > Just keep in mind that even though we walk over the troll, it's
                  > > > really the bridge that we're walking on.
                  > > >
                  > > > Gerry
                  > > >
                  > > heh , I find him overly simplistic bordering on innane myself...
                  > >
                  > > I was just pointing out we all start somewhere...
                  > >
                  > > but I agree for free flow of discussion, lest we wonder off into "ooh
                  > look its a kitten" land... we do need structure...
                  > >
                  >
                • lady_caritas
                  Well, hello, Willy. It s been a while. Good to see you. Cari
                  Message 8 of 17 , Jun 7, 2009
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                    Well, hello, Willy. It's been a while. Good to see you.

                    Cari

                    --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Will Brown" <wilbro99@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > So, how does one say hello in Gnostic? After that, we might get down to
                    > the creation of a Rosetta Stone of sorts... ~~~~willy
                    >
                    > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Will Brown" <wilbro99@> wrote:
                    > >
                    > > Absolutely, this time through the realm of Gnosticism, I shall learn
                    > to
                    > > speak your language. ~~~~willy
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Ben" brbenjaminassisi@ wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Gerry" gerryhsp@ wrote:
                    > > > >
                    > > >
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Just keep in mind that even though we walk over the troll, it's
                    > > > > really the bridge that we're walking on.
                    > > > >
                    > > > > Gerry
                    > > > >
                    > > > heh , I find him overly simplistic bordering on innane myself...
                    > > >
                    > > > I was just pointing out we all start somewhere...
                    > > >
                    > > > but I agree for free flow of discussion, lest we wonder off into
                    > "ooh
                    > > look its a kitten" land... we do need structure...
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                  • Will Brown
                    Yep, been over six years, it has, since I wandered off into the sunset. So, the sun has again arisen and I wander back into the realm of Cari and her fellow
                    Message 9 of 17 , Jun 7, 2009
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                      Yep, been over six years, it has, since I wandered off into the sunset. So, the sun has again arisen and I wander back into the realm of Cari and her fellow Gnosticeers. Is the following site a good place for me to begin again?

                      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism

                      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, lady_caritas <no_reply@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Well, hello, Willy. It's been a while. Good to see you.
                      >
                      > Cari
                      >
                      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Will Brown" wilbro99@ wrote:
                      > >
                      > > So, how does one say hello in Gnostic? After that, we might get down to
                      > > the creation of a Rosetta Stone of sorts... ~~~~willy
                      > >
                      > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Will Brown" <wilbro99@> wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Absolutely, this time through the realm of Gnosticism, I shall learn
                      > > to
                      > > > speak your language. ~~~~willy
                      > > >
                      > > >
                      > > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Ben" brbenjaminassisi@ wrote:
                      > > > >
                      > > > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Gerry" gerryhsp@ wrote:
                      > > > > >
                      > > > >
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Just keep in mind that even though we walk over the troll, it's
                      > > > > > really the bridge that we're walking on.
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > > Gerry
                      > > > > >
                      > > > > heh , I find him overly simplistic bordering on innane myself...
                      > > > >
                      > > > > I was just pointing out we all start somewhere...
                      > > > >
                      > > > > but I agree for free flow of discussion, lest we wonder off into
                      > > "ooh
                      > > > look its a kitten" land... we do need structure...
                      > > > >
                      > > >
                      > >
                      >
                    • Mark
                      From the gut as well as the head. Mark
                      Message 10 of 17 , Jun 7, 2009
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                        From the gut as well as the head.

                        Mark

                        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Will Brown" <wilbro99@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > So, how does one say hello in Gnostic? After that, we might get down to
                        > the creation of a Rosetta Stone of sorts... ~~~~willy
                        >
                        > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Will Brown" <wilbro99@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Absolutely, this time through the realm of Gnosticism, I shall learn
                        > to
                        > > speak your language. ~~~~willy
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Ben" brbenjaminassisi@ wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Gerry" gerryhsp@ wrote:
                        > > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Just keep in mind that even though we walk over the troll, it's
                        > > > > really the bridge that we're walking on.
                        > > > >
                        > > > > Gerry
                        > > > >
                        > > > heh , I find him overly simplistic bordering on innane myself...
                        > > >
                        > > > I was just pointing out we all start somewhere...
                        > > >
                        > > > but I agree for free flow of discussion, lest we wonder off into
                        > "ooh
                        > > look its a kitten" land... we do need structure...
                        > > >
                        > >
                        >
                      • lady_caritas
                        ... The Wikipedia summary has gone through revisions and isn t a bad place to start. In general, the Wikipedia pages continue to be updated, and you can click
                        Message 11 of 17 , Jun 7, 2009
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                          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Will Brown" <wilbro99@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Yep, been over six years, it has, since I wandered off into the sunset.
                          > So, the sun has again arisen and I wander back into the realm of Cari
                          > and her fellow Gnosticeers. Is the following site a good place for me to
                          > begin again?
                          >
                          > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism
                          >
                          >

                          The Wikipedia summary has gone through revisions and isn't a bad place to start. In general, the Wikipedia pages continue to be updated, and you can click on "discussion" at the top of pages to view types of issues encountered.

                          Also, Willy, you can browse through our "Links" and "Files" sections on our Gnosticism2 homepage. There are many books and articles, of course that address historical Gnosticism. I would recommend actually reading original source literature. You can find some translations online, too. ~

                          http://www.gnosis.org/library.html
                          http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/index.html

                          We can offer more specific recommendations as required, Willy.

                          We look forward to comments and questions of yours.

                          Cari
                        • Will Brown
                          ... Ok, I ll root around and get back when I figure I have something cogent to say, something different from last time...
                          Message 12 of 17 , Jun 7, 2009
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                            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, lady_caritas <no_reply@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Will Brown" <wilbro99@> wrote:
                            > >
                            > > Yep, been over six years, it has, since I wandered off into the sunset.
                            > > So, the sun has again arisen and I wander back into the realm of Cari
                            > > and her fellow Gnosticeers. Is the following site a good place for me to
                            > > begin again?
                            > >
                            > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism
                            > >
                            > >
                            >
                            > The Wikipedia summary has gone through revisions and isn't a bad place to start. In general, the Wikipedia pages continue to be updated, and you can click on "discussion" at the top of pages to view types of issues encountered.
                            >
                            > Also, Willy, you can browse through our "Links" and "Files" sections on our Gnosticism2 homepage. There are many books and articles, of course that address historical Gnosticism. I would recommend actually reading original source literature. You can find some translations online, too. ~
                            >
                            > http://www.gnosis.org/library.html
                            > http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/index.html
                            >
                            > We can offer more specific recommendations as required, Willy.
                            >
                            > We look forward to comments and questions of yours.
                            >
                            > Cari
                            >

                            Ok, I'll root around and get back when I figure I have something cogent to say, something different from last time...
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