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Re: Gnostic churches?

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  • Ben
    ... problems no1 this is not the focus of this group, this group is essentially an attempted scholarly discussion list... religion per se is secondary and not
    Message 1 of 14 , May 12, 2009
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      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "justafools" <justafools@...> wrote:
      problems

      no1 this is not the focus of this group, this group is essentially an attempted scholarly discussion list... religion per se is secondary and not really "encouraged" here

      no2 Gnosticism as a "religious" movement, is pretty new, at least for the West, there are some groups that have a long tradition of Gnosticism, for example certain Egyptian Groups still name their children Valentine, after Valentinus.

      no3 there are NUMEROUS groups using the moniker Gnostic, often many of these groups are in direct opposition toward each other, for example Samael Aun Weor, OTO and Ecclesia Gnostica.... etc. This is even coupled with New Agers who also use the word...until really the term Gnostic (as a "religion") is largely meaningless....

      no4 Gnostics then and now differ in their views, although arguably there are some core universals there are huge differences.

      no5 Many modern "Gnostics" see no difference between ceremonial Magick and Gnosticism. Yes, Robert Anton WIlson can now be applied to Gnosticism...(oh please)... while of course traditionally Gnostics would have run screaming from Magic, as essentially it is blasphemy... but there

      no6 It is "UN" Gnostic to go around prolestyzing like a tv evangelist.. Gnostics prefer to work within. As the original Rosicrucians did (not so much the modern ones)the idea was to hide, to dress non formally. To advertise one's self was an gregarious act of the ego, boastful and concious acts that act simply top boost one's false self are worthless. Gnostics work in silence, they have no need to advertise... Although once again some feel happy to advertise.....


      but again, this is really all off topic...as I am sure the moderators will tell you


      >
      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "cartercanes" <cartercanes@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Are there any gnostic churches? Do they exist, and if so, where are they located? thanks
      > >
      > They seem to be few and far apart. I think that if Gnosticism is to thrive then Gnostics may have to adopt the methods that Christians have in China and open more house churches. These are where people open their own home to small groups and network that way. If we do not form cabals then we will never grow to much. from checking Gnostic sites, I would say that the movement only has a few thousand members in the west and that if we do not form a more official cabal then we will shrink.
      >
      > Regards
      > DL
      >
    • pmcvflag
      Hey Cartercanes ... Groups that exist today that harken back to the traditional Gnostics would generally be more accurately termed neoGnostics. Since a number
      Message 2 of 14 , May 12, 2009
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        Hey Cartercanes

        >>>Are there any gnostic churches? Do they exist, and if so, where are they located? thanks<<<

        Groups that exist today that harken back to the traditional Gnostics would generally be more accurately termed neoGnostics. Since a number of people here have listed some groups for you I won't bother to name any. Many of the modern groups that call themselves "gnostic" have essentially nothing in common with the historical groups this forum deals with. However, there are some that do attempt to revive the basic ideas and structure of the traditional Gnostics with lesser or greater accuracy depending on the group.

        PMCV
      • RYELL104
        Thanks, Ben.  Your post was interesting, informative and helpful for me.    Richard in NC Thanks, Ben. Your post was interesting, informative and helpful
        Message 3 of 14 , May 13, 2009
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          Thanks, Ben.  Your post was interesting, informative and helpful for me. 
           
          Richard in NC

        • David Carter
          Do you attend, why do you attend, and what do people do there?  I know very little.  Please help.  I live in South georgia, U.S.  thnaks....dc ... From:
          Message 4 of 14 , May 13, 2009
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            Do you attend, why do you attend, and what do people do there?  I know very little.  Please help.  I live in South georgia, U.S.  thnaks....dc

            --- On Mon, 5/11/09, mowthpeece@... <mowthpeece@...> wrote:

            From: mowthpeece@... <mowthpeece@...>
            Subject: Re: [Gnosticism2] Gnostic churches?
            To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Monday, May 11, 2009, 10:43 PM

            Yes. Hoeller's church is here in L.A. There's another in Long Beach, CA..Woer teaches there...

            Google gnostic churches for the others in Oregon and Washington.. .

            Anna
            Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

            From: "cartercanes"
            Date: Mon, 11 May 2009 21:36:20 -0000
            To: <gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com>
            Subject: [Gnosticism2] Gnostic churches?
            Are there any gnostic churches? Do they exist, and if so, where are they located? thanks


          • David Carter
            I know I m stupid, but what is a cabal?  thanks...dc ... From: justafools Subject: [Gnosticism2] Re: Gnostic churches? To:
            Message 5 of 14 , May 13, 2009
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              I know I'm stupid, but what is a cabal?  thanks...dc

              --- On Tue, 5/12/09, justafools <justafools@...> wrote:

              From: justafools <justafools@...>
              Subject: [Gnosticism2] Re: Gnostic churches?
              To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
              Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 8:55 AM

              --- In gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com, "cartercanes" <cartercanes@ ...> wrote:
              >
              > Are there any gnostic churches? Do they exist, and if so, where are they located? thanks
              >
              They seem to be few and far apart. I think that if Gnosticism is to thrive then Gnostics may have to adopt the methods that Christians have in China and open more house churches. These are where people open their own home to small groups and network that way. If we do not form cabals then we will never grow to much. from checking Gnostic sites, I would say that the movement only has a few thousand members in the west and that if we do not form a more official cabal then we will shrink.

              Regards
              DL


            • David Carter
              Thanks Ben.  I am a beginner.  I hope I didn t waste anyone s time.  Thanks again for your insight.  I guess in the realm of gnosticism, no people are
              Message 6 of 14 , May 13, 2009
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                Thanks Ben.  I am a beginner.  I hope I didn't waste anyone's time.  Thanks again for your insight.  I guess in the realm of gnosticism, no people are alike in their thinking.  Therefore, there can't really be a group of "gnostics".  Thanks again.  dc

                --- On Tue, 5/12/09, Ben <brbenjaminassisi@...> wrote:

                From: Ben <brbenjaminassisi@...>
                Subject: [Gnosticism2] Re: Gnostic churches?
                To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 2:47 PM

                --- In gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com, "justafools" <justafools@ ...> wrote:
                problems

                no1 this is not the focus of this group, this group is essentially an attempted scholarly discussion list... religion per se is secondary and not really "encouraged" here

                no2 Gnosticism as a "religious" movement, is pretty new, at least for the West, there are some groups that have a long tradition of Gnosticism, for example certain Egyptian Groups still name their children Valentine, after Valentinus.

                no3 there are NUMEROUS groups using the moniker Gnostic, often many of these groups are in direct opposition toward each other, for example Samael Aun Weor, OTO and Ecclesia Gnostica.... etc. This is even coupled with New Agers who also use the word...until really the term Gnostic (as a "religion") is largely meaningless. ...

                no4 Gnostics then and now differ in their views, although arguably there are some core universals there are huge differences.

                no5 Many modern "Gnostics" see no difference between ceremonial Magick and Gnosticism. Yes, Robert Anton WIlson can now be applied to Gnosticism.. .(oh please)... while of course traditionally Gnostics would have run screaming from Magic, as essentially it is blasphemy... but there

                no6 It is "UN" Gnostic to go around prolestyzing like a tv evangelist.. Gnostics prefer to work within. As the original Rosicrucians did (not so much the modern ones)the idea was to hide, to dress non formally. To advertise one's self was an gregarious act of the ego, boastful and concious acts that act simply top boost one's false self are worthless. Gnostics work in silence, they have no need to advertise... Although once again some feel happy to advertise... ..

                but again, this is really all off topic...as I am sure the moderators will tell you

                >
                > --- In gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com, "cartercanes" <cartercanes@ > wrote:
                > >
                > > Are there any gnostic churches? Do they exist, and if so, where are they located? thanks
                > >
                > They seem to be few and far apart. I think that if Gnosticism is to thrive then Gnostics may have to adopt the methods that Christians have in China and open more house churches. These are where people open their own home to small groups and network that way. If we do not form cabals then we will never grow to much. from checking Gnostic sites, I would say that the movement only has a few thousand members in the west and that if we do not form a more official cabal then we will shrink.
                >
                > Regards
                > DL
                >


              • justafools
                ... I define cabal as a group or organization. The old Orthodox Church organized faster than the Gnostic wing and almost wiped Gnostics right out of existence.
                Message 7 of 14 , May 14, 2009
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                  --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, David Carter <cartercanes@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I know I'm stupid, but what is a cabal?  thanks...dc
                  >
                  > --- On Tue, 5/12/09, justafools <justafools@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > From: justafools <justafools@...>
                  > Subject: [Gnosticism2] Re: Gnostic churches?
                  > To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
                  > Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 8:55 AM
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com, "cartercanes" <cartercanes@ ...> wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Are there any gnostic churches? Do they exist, and if so, where are they located? thanks
                  > >
                  > They seem to be few and far apart. I think that if Gnosticism is to thrive then Gnostics may have to adopt the methods that Christians have in China and open more house churches. These are where people open their own home to small groups and network that way. If we do not form cabals then we will never grow to much. from checking Gnostic sites, I would say that the movement only has a few thousand members in the west and that if we do not form a more official cabal then we will shrink.
                  >
                  > Regards
                  > DL
                  >
                  I define cabal as a group or organization.
                  The old Orthodox Church organized faster than the Gnostic wing and almost wiped Gnostics right out of existence. They did sell out to Constantine but what the hell eh.

                  The way I see It is that Gnosticism began as house churches. They were the goats to the Christian scripture as opposed to the sheep.

                  At present, it seems to me that Gnostics are scattered all over the place with small groups. If they are not brought together in a single or group of larger numbers then Gnosticism will likely die out.
                  The house is divided. It cannot stand.

                  Are you a good organizer?
                  Just kidding.

                  Regards
                  DL
                • justafools
                  ... What is this about no people are alike in their thinking. Therefore, there can t really be a group of Gnostics ? If any two are gathered in my name ring
                  Message 8 of 14 , May 14, 2009
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                    --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, David Carter <cartercanes@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Thanks Ben.  I am a beginner.  I hope I didn't waste anyone's time.  Thanks again for your insight.  I guess in the realm of gnosticism, no people are alike in their thinking.  Therefore, there can't really be a group of "gnostics".  Thanks again.  dc
                    >
                    > --- On Tue, 5/12/09, Ben <brbenjaminassisi@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >
                    > From: Ben <brbenjaminassisi@...>
                    > Subject: [Gnosticism2] Re: Gnostic churches?
                    > To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
                    > Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 2:47 PM
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > --- In gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com, "justafools" <justafools@ ...> wrote:
                    > problems
                    >
                    > no1 this is not the focus of this group, this group is essentially an attempted scholarly discussion list... religion per se is secondary and not really "encouraged" here
                    >
                    > no2 Gnosticism as a "religious" movement, is pretty new, at least for the West, there are some groups that have a long tradition of Gnosticism, for example certain Egyptian Groups still name their children Valentine, after Valentinus.
                    >
                    > no3 there are NUMEROUS groups using the moniker Gnostic, often many of these groups are in direct opposition toward each other, for example Samael Aun Weor, OTO and Ecclesia Gnostica.... etc. This is even coupled with New Agers who also use the word...until really the term Gnostic (as a "religion") is largely meaningless. ...
                    >
                    > no4 Gnostics then and now differ in their views, although arguably there are some core universals there are huge differences.
                    >
                    > no5 Many modern "Gnostics" see no difference between ceremonial Magick and Gnosticism. Yes, Robert Anton WIlson can now be applied to Gnosticism.. .(oh please)... while of course traditionally Gnostics would have run screaming from Magic, as essentially it is blasphemy... but there
                    >
                    > no6 It is "UN" Gnostic to go around prolestyzing like a tv evangelist.. Gnostics prefer to work within. As the original Rosicrucians did (not so much the modern ones)the idea was to hide, to dress non formally. To advertise one's self was an gregarious act of the ego, boastful and concious acts that act simply top boost one's false self are worthless. Gnostics work in silence, they have no need to advertise... Although once again some feel happy to advertise... ..
                    >
                    > but again, this is really all off topic...as I am sure the moderators will tell you
                    >
                    > >
                    > > --- In gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com, "cartercanes" <cartercanes@ > wrote:
                    > > >
                    > > > Are there any gnostic churches? Do they exist, and if so, where are they located? thanks
                    > > >
                    > > They seem to be few and far apart. I think that if Gnosticism is to thrive then Gnostics may have to adopt the methods that Christians have in China and open more house churches. These are where people open their own home to small groups and network that way. If we do not form cabals then we will never grow to much. from checking Gnostic sites, I would say that the movement only has a few thousand members in the west and that if we do not form a more official cabal then we will shrink.
                    > >
                    > > Regards
                    > > DL
                    > >
                    >
                    What is this about "no people are alike in their thinking. Therefore, there can't really be a group of "Gnostics"?

                    If any two are gathered in my name ring any bells?

                    Need I say more to such a foolish notion.

                    Regards
                    DL
                  • Ben
                    ... there is a vast difference between offshoots of the 19th century occult movement and Sylvia Brown yet both use the word Gnostic to define their religion.
                    Message 9 of 14 , May 14, 2009
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                      > >
                      > What is this about "no people are alike in their thinking. Therefore, there can't really be a group of "Gnostics"?
                      >
                      > If any two are gathered in my name ring any bells?
                      >
                      > Need I say more to such a foolish notion.
                      >
                      > Regards
                      > DL
                      >

                      there is a vast difference between offshoots of the 19th century occult movement

                      and

                      Sylvia Brown

                      yet both use the word Gnostic to define their religion.

                      Of course there are people that are alike in their thinking, the "problem" is the term Gnostic has become a "mess"

                      It would be like comparing snake handling Christians with Franscican Monks... yes they are both Christians... but the differences in their approach to the divine is as vast as the difference between a rock and a turnip.

                      This group is focused mainly on one type of Gnostic, those that wrote, read and used the Naghammadi collection of writings... no more, no less. For good or bad, at least that is a frame work. Without a frame work, we could be discussing anything and everything.... for right or wrong, perhaps it is arguably not all that great to put custard on fish or ketchup on ice cream....
                      so to speak
                    • David Carter
                      DL, I m a good organizer, but I know very little about gnosticism. thanks...dc ... From: justafools Subject: [Gnosticism2] Re: Gnostic
                      Message 10 of 14 , May 16, 2009
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                        DL, I'm a good organizer, but I know very little about gnosticism. thanks...dc

                        --- On Thu, 5/14/09, justafools <justafools@...> wrote:

                        From: justafools <justafools@...>
                        Subject: [Gnosticism2] Re: Gnostic churches?
                        To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
                        Date: Thursday, May 14, 2009, 11:28 AM

                        --- In gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com, David Carter <cartercanes@ ...> wrote:
                        >
                        > I know I'm stupid, but what is a cabal?  thanks...dc
                        >
                        > --- On Tue, 5/12/09, justafools <justafools@ ...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > From: justafools <justafools@ ...>
                        > Subject: [Gnosticism2] Re: Gnostic churches?
                        > To: gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com
                        > Date: Tuesday, May 12, 2009, 8:55 AM
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --- In gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com, "cartercanes" <cartercanes@ ...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Are there any gnostic churches? Do they exist, and if so, where are they located? thanks
                        > >
                        > They seem to be few and far apart. I think that if Gnosticism is to thrive then Gnostics may have to adopt the methods that Christians have in China and open more house churches. These are where people open their own home to small groups and network that way. If we do not form cabals then we will never grow to much. from checking Gnostic sites, I would say that the movement only has a few thousand members in the west and that if we do not form a more official cabal then we will shrink.
                        >
                        > Regards
                        > DL
                        >
                        I define cabal as a group or organization.
                        The old Orthodox Church organized faster than the Gnostic wing and almost wiped Gnostics right out of existence. They did sell out to Constantine but what the hell eh.

                        The way I see It is that Gnosticism began as house churches. They were the goats to the Christian scripture as opposed to the sheep.

                        At present, it seems to me that Gnostics are scattered all over the place with small groups. If they are not brought together in a single or group of larger numbers then Gnosticism will likely die out.
                        The house is divided. It cannot stand.

                        Are you a good organizer?
                        Just kidding.

                        Regards
                        DL


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