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Is God and His works perfect?

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  • justafools
    Is God and His works perfect? I was a non believer at one time and enjoyed winning debates with believers using the K J Bible against them. Paradoxically, it
    Message 1 of 78 , May 7, 2009
      Is God and His works perfect?

      I was a non believer at one time and enjoyed winning debates with believers using the K J Bible against them. Paradoxically, it was by knowing this Bible and interpreting it my way that lead me to find God.

      I had determined that if there was a God at all, then whatever he had created had to be perfect and that that
      This perfection would maintain itself over time. Never backsliding to imperfection.

      God could never look down on earth and say, oops what the hell happened to my perfect world, it was good and now look at it, imperfect.
      His will is supreme and not even a world of humans could collectively thwart His will with theirs.

      I began to see this perfection that had to be here even with evils and sins and woes and that is when I found God. I went into the spirit, as the ancients used to say and God showed me the pain and pleasure of knowing that He was actually there.

      I am not sure yet if it is the Christian God or not because I see the Bible as a consolidation of the then known religions. A bit from one and a bit from another.

      The God I found is one of infinite love for humanity. He does not kill us or otherwise interfere but is there for those who seek.

      He does not match the God that literal readers of scripture know.
      That literal God, if the old testament is believed as the WORD does not have infinite love for man because He tends to kill them quite often. Sodom, Noah's flood and many other times and places.

      I find it strange that literal readers do not take this scripture literally.

      Deuteronomy 32:4
      He is the Rock, his works are perfect, and all his ways are just. A faithful God who does no wrong, upright and just is he.

      They see babies being born as already stained with sin.
      If perfect and having a sin nature is part of perfection, and I think it is then well and good. If not then you would have to explain why God would create imperfect souls and natures for us.

      Most literal reader though do not see this world as good even though, in Eden, God looked down and saw that the earth was good even with Satan there as the talking serpent.
      Why God allowed Satan there is debatable but regardless of this, he was there for literal readers.

      Imperfection cannot flow out of perfection. A perfect stream will not give poison water.
      Perfection flows from perfection and imperfection flows from imperfection.

      I see God's universe as perfect.
      I should give you my definition of perfect now to save some time.
      Some people see or use that word to denote a finish and complete product.
      I do not and if I may, God does not.
      In the beginning God was alone and perfect. He then began to add to His universe. Evolution is change so since the changes He began with, did not cause a lose of perfection, but moved it to a new level, I say that perfection is now perfection in evolution. Always perfect but like the U S constitution uses the term, moving to a more perfect state. I also do not see a schism between Darwin's evolution and God. God began it and Darwin named it. This shows my thoughts on a six day creation but that too is a different issue.

      My question then is,
      Do you see God's universe as perfection in evolution, or,
      Do you see God's initial perfection gone and replaced by imperfection?

      Is God still looking down with a smile as His perfection continues to evolve over never ending time as befits a God of perfect works, or
      Is God looking down and saying, oops, what happened to my perfect universe and world. It backslid.

      You should know that I do not ever expect God to return at some end time because I see His judgment at the beginning of our birth in Genesis as the only judgment that he need render. To have Him return, red faced, to fix a perfect world is beyond my definition of God. He gets things right the first time, every time.

      I do not include this for debate here but only to show how strongly I believe that when we left the garden we did so with God being proud of His perfect works and not ashamed that He had started us off on the wrong foot, so to speak, from the beginning of our journey.

      Regards
      DL
    • lady_caritas
      ... Truth is, Ben, I m happy for DL and others to read any writings by the Gnostics with metaphorical glasses. Cari
      Message 78 of 78 , May 29, 2009
        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Ben" <brbenjaminassisi@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > >
        > > DL, you are certainly entitled to your beliefs. If you should choose to compare or contrast them to others' beliefs, however, it would a good idea to try to understand how the others interpreted their words, as Gerry mentioned. Their own words.
        > >
        > > Cari
        > >
        > Hi Cari...
        >
        > you could easily cite besides philip and sophia of Jesus regardign this subject...
        >
        > the "contradictory" nature of texts such as Thunder perfect...
        >
        > Which I think all point to a very "Gnostic truth",
        >
        > those that know do not speak
        > those that speak do not know
        >
        > for the Gnostics clearly treated their cosmological ideas as merely means to end... like staring at the sun, if you dont wear sun glasses or redirect the light through something else...and stare directly into it... you will be blinded.
        >
        > For somneone like DL new to Gnosticism and any kind of mystical insight (this may be innaccurate, however his ideas seem to scream this as a "truth")it can be very difficult to see through the illogical logic of Gnosticism and any simliar ideas..or ideas that work by making one see through the surface to a "greater idea/s"
        >
        > Of course its really easy really, as thomas says all that is hidden will be revealed....
        >
        > When is a door not a door?
        > When it is ajar...
        >


        Truth is, Ben, I'm happy for DL and others to read any writings by the Gnostics with metaphorical glasses.

        Cari
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