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Has God given up the right to punish through giving free will? If so, there is n

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  • justafools
    Has God given up the right to punish through giving free will? If so, there is no hell. It is said that God gave man free will. This to me, means that God gave
    Message 1 of 5 , Apr 29 1:23 PM
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      Has God given up the right to punish through giving free will? If so, there is no hell.

      It is said that God gave man free will.
      This to me, means that God gave man dominion over himself and over the earth. Without any restrictions or coercion from Him.

      The idea then that He would mean that we must do as He says or go to hell cannot be a true concept if the term free will is to mean anything.

      If we as parents give or allow our children to have freedom when they leave our homes, then that means that we give up any right or responsibility to punish them.

      To keep things simple, let us say that the rules of my home includes making the bed.
      I notice when visiting my children in their home, that they have chosen not to make their beds.
      I then would be out of line to reprimand or punish them for not making their beds. They are free to do so or not if they have free will.

      This seems right. It is no longer my place as a father to punish them. They are free and have dominion over themselves.

      God then should not and would not hold a hell over our heads to demand compliance to His rules.

      Is free will with consequences from God, hell for non compliance, free will at all?
      Is being free to only follow His rules free will?
      Has God given up the right to punish free men?
      Do we truly have dominion on earth?

      Regards
      DL
    • pmcvflag
      Not completely sure I am following your reasoning there, DL, but since you are talking about the Demiurge I am guessing that most of the people on this list
      Message 2 of 5 , May 1, 2009
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        Not completely sure I am following your reasoning there, DL, but since you are talking about the Demiurge I am guessing that most of the people on this list would agree that he has no right to punish.

        PMCV

        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "justafools" <justafools@...> wrote:
        >
        > Has God given up the right to punish through giving free will? If so, there is no hell.
        >
        > It is said that God gave man free will.
        > This to me, means that God gave man dominion over himself and over the earth. Without any restrictions or coercion from Him.
        >
        > The idea then that He would mean that we must do as He says or go to hell cannot be a true concept if the term free will is to mean anything.
        >
        > If we as parents give or allow our children to have freedom when they leave our homes, then that means that we give up any right or responsibility to punish them.
        >
        > To keep things simple, let us say that the rules of my home includes making the bed.
        > I notice when visiting my children in their home, that they have chosen not to make their beds.
        > I then would be out of line to reprimand or punish them for not making their beds. They are free to do so or not if they have free will.
        >
        > This seems right. It is no longer my place as a father to punish them. They are free and have dominion over themselves.
        >
        > God then should not and would not hold a hell over our heads to demand compliance to His rules.
        >
        > Is free will with consequences from God, hell for non compliance, free will at all?
        > Is being free to only follow His rules free will?
        > Has God given up the right to punish free men?
        > Do we truly have dominion on earth?
        >
        > Regards
        > DL
        >
      • justafools
        ... God, by whatever name is still God. I have no right to name the God I found. Right on. Regards DL
        Message 3 of 5 , May 2, 2009
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          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@...> wrote:
          >
          > Not completely sure I am following your reasoning there, DL, but since you are talking about the Demiurge I am guessing that most of the people on this list would agree that he has no right to punish.
          >
          > PMCV
          >
          God, by whatever name is still God.
          I have no right to name the God I found.

          Right on.

          Regards
          DL
        • pmcvflag
          Hey DL ... I have no right to name the God I found.
          Message 4 of 5 , May 2, 2009
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            Hey DL

            >>God, by whatever name is still God.
            I have no right to name the God I found.<<

            That may be true for most religions, but in Gnosticism the term "God" could be used to describe a few different things so simetimes disambiguation is in order. What I mean is, the term "God" could be used to talk about the first Father, or maybe the second Father, or as in the case you seem to be talking about it is the Demiurge. It may not always be completely clear which one a person is talking about without context.

            PMCV
          • justafools
            ... True. I use the term God to just show the ultimate one. The God I found is a cosmic consciousness. Not a creator miracle working super God. That one is
            Message 5 of 5 , May 3, 2009
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              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hey DL
              >
              > >>God, by whatever name is still God.
              > I have no right to name the God I found.<<
              >
              > That may be true for most religions, but in Gnosticism the term "God" could be used to describe a few different things so simetimes disambiguation is in order. What I mean is, the term "God" could be used to talk about the first Father, or maybe the second Father, or as in the case you seem to be talking about it is the Demiurge. It may not always be completely clear which one a person is talking about without context.
              >
              > PMCV
              >
              True. I use the term God to just show the ultimate one.

              The God I found is a cosmic consciousness. Not a creator miracle working super God. That one is myth only with no reality as far as we can tell.

              The cosmic consciousness was born of the first true man and is our next evolution.

              I agree that God, the word means many things to many people. Some good some evil.

              Regards
              DL
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