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Re: Gnosticism versus Neoplatonism/Kabbalah

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  • Gerry
    ... groups disappeared Tuesday. They are back today. This morning I couldn t access my mail. Now it s back. Now I find the settings changed on one of my small
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 15, 2009
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      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Gnostic Ken <gnostic_ken@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      > Hi Cari,
      > Yahoo is improving things again so expect strange things. Half of my groups disappeared Tuesday. They are back today. This morning I couldn't access my mail. Now it's back. Now I find the settings changed on one of my small groups where I am the only moderator.
      >
      > Ken
      >

       

      I know you prefer the e-mail interface, Ken, but when I also noticed that most of my groups had recently disappeared from the "Groups" page, I found that they were still accessible from their respective home pages.  It's good to keep those web access links nearby if only for those occasions when Yahoo starts acting up.

      Gerry

    • lady_caritas
      ... Eegads, Ken. I do hope that all this improving ends up really improving things. Cari
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 16, 2009
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        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Gnostic Ken <gnostic_ken@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > --- On Wed, 4/15/09, lady_caritas <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
        >
        > > Just a note to say that the e-mail
        > > format of my previous post came out fine, but for some
        > > reason, portions of my reply in the post showing up at the
        > > website came out in green, not only blue, and sometimes bold
        > > in a different font.  Very strange.  Sorry about
        > > that.  *lol*
        > >
        > > Cari
        >
        > Hi Cari,
        > Yahoo is improving things again so expect strange things. Half of my groups disappeared Tuesday. They are back today. This morning I couldn't access my mail. Now it's back. Now I find the settings changed on one of my small groups where I am the only moderator.
        >
        > Ken
        >


        Eegads, Ken. I do hope that all this "improving" ends up really improving things.

        Cari
      • Br Benjamin Assisi
        some say: kabbalah comes from the essenes or enochian Gnostics...as some refer to them who mixed with Buddhism eventually... I suggest checking out hechalot
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 16, 2009
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          some say:

          kabbalah comes from the essenes

          or enochian Gnostics...as some refer to them

          who mixed with Buddhism eventually...

          I suggest checking out hechalot (spelling nazi, the palaces) and merkavah (chariot) literature...

          paradise now edited by Deconick would be a good start, plenty of others... most are expensive and rare though



          Kabbalah has very Gnostic elements... it also has Buddhist elements too...

          consider this extract:

          ”Innerspace” by Aryeh Kaplan

           

           ”One of the basic axioms of the Kabbalah is that nothing can be said about God Himself. It is for this reason that God is called Ain Sof, which means literally, the One without end or limit. God is infinite and therefore undefineable and uncharacterizable. He is limitless Being and Existence before the act of creation as well as subsequent to it. Even conceptually, there is no category in existence which can define God. This is what the Tikuney Zohar means when it says ‘Not thought can grasp Him.’

                  On the level of Ain Sof, therefore, nothing else exists. Every concept and category associated with existence must be created from nothing…..

                  Since no quality can be ascribed to Ain Sof, it follows that if God has or uses ‘Will,’ He must have created it. The Zohar explicitly states that God does not have ‘will’ in any anthropomorphic sense. Rather, to the extent that we can express it, in order to create the world, God had to will the concept of creation into existence. In order to do this, He had to create the concept of ‘will.’ This, of course, leads to an ultimate paradox, for if God is going to create ‘will,’ this in itself presupposes an act of will. This means that going back to Ain Sof, to God Himself, involves an infinite regression…..

                  Ain-Nothingness…..This is not a nothingness which implies lack of existence. There is no deficiency in the Ain, only fullness beyond the capacity of any created being  to experience directly. Rather, it is nothingness because of the lack of a category in the mind in which to place it.  Ain is therefore only ‘nothingness’ relative to us. It is the nothingness of ineffability and hiddenness. It is no-thing because it is so much more rarified than the some-thing of creation. In this sense, like God Himself, it is ultimately unfathomable and beyond our ability to comprehend.

                  On the other hand, God’s Will permeated the entire system of creation. The continued existence of creation, in fact, depends entirely on God’s willing it. Since only God exists in an absolute sense, everything else exists because God wills its existence continually. A human architect can design and construct a building and then forget about it. But God’s creation is more than that. Nothing can exist without God constantly willing it to exist. Without this, it would utterly cease to exist.”



          then theres the thing about emanationism...


          but there...


          ask off or on list if you want more, preferably off, I dont pay a great deal to this list



          On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 8:51 AM, gvasquezneo <gvasquezneo@...> wrote:
          It has always been a challenge for me to weigh on the one hand the writings of the Neoplatonists, such as Plotinus, with the Kabbalists; and the Gnostic writings  on the other hand.

          One Kabbalistic group (http://www.arionline.info/
          ,http://www.kabbalah.info/
          ) attributes its teachings to the great Kabbalist Yehuda Ashlag. They teach that God's purpose was to create a creature(the manifest world, especially us) and fill it with delight. This to my ears sounds crazy, but if you read a lot of their other writings much of it makes sense.

          Also Plotinus, the Neoplatonist considered the gnostics misguided. They saw creation as perfect. I can't see it that way either.

          The one I feel most accurately  portrays reality is Buddha, who I consider an eastern gnostic, but even there, the eight-fold path seems to be petitioning the maker with good acts, which again seems too rational. Even if these "rules" are being used to tear down duality, I feel grace has always the determining ingredient in enlightenment.

          I guess what I'm getting at is that making God evil sounds too dualistic, too human in reasoning. Making him good does the same. I'm more in agreement with Valentinus who considered the the "fall" an "error plane".But all these teachings have an excessive anthropomorphic bent. I feel truth comes from a non-dual reality that is beyond words or people. something indescribable.

          Has anyone else been struggling with this. Can anyone help me with this or refer me to some literature. Thank you.


        • Gnostic Ken
          Hi Gerry, I always access the groups page to see if any of my lists need attention before I go to mail . At least half of my groups were missing too. The
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 17, 2009
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            Hi Gerry,
            I always access the groups page to see if any of my lists need attention before I go to "mail". At least half of my groups were missing too. The second day they were still gone so I clicked on "view all" and they came back.
             
            Ken

            --- On Wed, 4/15/09, Gerry <gerryhsp@...> wrote:

            From: Gerry <gerryhsp@...>
            Subject: [Gnosticism2] Re: Gnosticism versus Neoplatonism/Kabbalah
            To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
            Date: Wednesday, April 15, 2009, 7:32 PM




            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Gnostic Ken <gnostic_ken@...> wrote:
            >
            >
            > Hi Cari,
            > Yahoo is improving things again so expect strange things. Half of my groups disappeared Tuesday. They are back today. This morning I couldn't access my mail. Now it's back. Now I find the settings changed on one of my small groups where I am the only moderator.
            >
            > Ken
            >
             
            I know you prefer the e-mail interface, Ken, but when I also noticed that most of my groups had recently disappeared from the "Groups" page, I found that they were still accessible from their respective home pages.  It's good to keep those web access links nearby if only for those occasions when Yahoo starts acting up.
            Gerry



          • Gnostic Ken
            ... Hi Cari, Me too ;-) As much as I like to complain I gotta admit that over all yahoogroups has gotten better over the years. Ken
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 17, 2009
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              --- On Thu, 4/16/09, lady_caritas <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
              > > Hi Cari,
              > > Yahoo is improving things again so expect strange
              > things. Half of my groups disappeared Tuesday. They are back
              > today. This morning I couldn't access my mail. Now it's
              > back. Now I find the settings changed on one of my small
              > groups where I am the only moderator.
              > >
              > > Ken
              > >
              >
              >
              > Eegads, Ken.  I do hope that all this "improving" ends
              > up really improving things.
              >
              > Cari

              Hi Cari,
              Me too ;-)

              As much as I like to complain I gotta admit that over all yahoogroups has gotten better over the years.

              Ken
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