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Re: Sowing the spiritual seed

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  • Mark
    PMCV, Your hip shots match what I was afraid to hear: that their exegesis is isogesis. Of course, there is nothing at all wrong with this, but I was hoping for
    Message 1 of 4 , May 7 3:53 PM
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      PMCV,

      Your hip shots match what I was afraid to hear: that their exegesis
      is isogesis. Of course, there is nothing at all wrong with this, but
      I was hoping for a textual referent (I have a touch of the purist in
      me!). I will let it remain an open question and perhaps one day I
      will stumble upon the "link." I have been doing some work on the
      understanding of spirit, spirituality and spiritual care in
      healthcare literature, so I am keen on gaining a deeper understanding
      of spirit, especially as it relates to the soul (psyche).

      Thanks for your hip shots!

      Mark

      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@...> wrote:
      >
      > Hey Mark
      >
      > You have a talent for asking the hard questions!
      >
      > >>>Up until Sophia's use of the Demiurge to sow secretly the
      > spiritual
      > seed, there were textual correspondences:
      > "dust" = carnal or irrational soul (2:7a)
      > "breath of life" = rational soul (2:7b)
      >
      > Question 1) What is the textual correspondence to which the
      > Valentinians attach their interpretation of this secret sowing of
      the
      > spirit? What is in the Hebrew text to suggest this?<<<
      >
      > I didn't get a chance to look into the situation further the way I
      > usually try to before answering, so I am shooting from the hip...
      as
      > it were. If I missed or forgot something then I am sure others here
      > will chime in and correct me.
      >
      > My first inclination is that while there could be some Jewish
      > textual suggestion that some Valentinians had in mind, there need
      > not be. Since the Gnostic schools (including the Valentinians) were
      > syncratic, we have to also consider what Greek philosophical
      sources
      > they may have been inserting between the lines.
      >
      > Having said that, the first part of Sirach (after the prologue) is
      a
      > strong possibility as a bridge between the Greek ideas and the
      > Genesis creation story. Just to throw something not obviously
      > related to your question into the mix, in the Valentinian category
      I
      > see some debate as to whether the imperfection comes from the Logos
      > or the Sophia.
      >
      > Anyway, back to the point... I would tend to look to latter Jewish
      > and Greek sources for possible connections, not Genesis.
      >
      > >>>Question 2) Are there two souls--the carnal and the rational, or
      > does this account for the soul's free will to choose good and evil?
      > <<<
      >
      > Again... shooting from the hip. I don't recall any Gnostic texts
      > that talk about a carnal "soul". In fact, the term that is usually
      > translated as "soul", nous, means mind and is generally connected
      to
      > the "psychic" part of the being. In most of the cases I can think
      of
      > this rational "soul" is explicitly distinct from the material part
      > of the tripartite individual. In other words, Brons seems to be
      > taking the usual body, soul, spirit division and restating it
      > slightly as carnal soul, rational soul, and spirit. In doing so I
      > believe he may be confusing the issue rather than making it more
      > clear.
      >
      > PMCV
      >
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