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Re: A fresh start

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  • pmcvflag
    Ben ... pound of apples and refusing to eat them but its your group..
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 21, 2008
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      Ben

      >>>yes that rule seems rather silly like going to a grocer, buying a
      pound of apples and refusing to eat them but its your group..<<<

      Just because we don't jump to the floor and eat our apples right
      there in the produce section does not mean we don't know what an
      apple can be. You seem to imply that a scientist who is looking at
      the botanical nature of an apple is somehow unable to enjoy the
      flavor. Be careful about the assumptions you make.

      >>>if you wish it to be divorced that is your choice<<<

      Yes, thank you, it is our choice. Not only that, even if you don't
      understand it there could be a good reason for it. The only thing
      you have to figure out is whether you can support it or not.

      >>>I think the focus of the forum is largely one sided, dry and
      imbalanced BUT I wouldnt be here if I didnt see any value in it<<<

      Good, then foster that value rather than undermining it.

      PMCV
    • George
      Perhaps I had forgotten, or perhaps I never realized, that the focus on the group was on the ancient groups. Chronologically speaking, where do we draw the
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 23, 2008
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        Perhaps I had forgotten, or perhaps I never realized,
        that the focus on the group was on the ancient groups.

        Chronologically speaking, where do we draw the line into
        a more modern period?

        Regards,

        George
      • George
        Brother Benjamin: Indeed, I had worked under the assumption that we were looking for what was the central CORE of these various groups, rather than an
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 23, 2008
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          Brother Benjamin:

          Indeed, I had worked under the assumption that we were looking
          for what was the central CORE of these various groups, rather
          than an historical view of who, and what, and where.

          I presume I was in error?

          Regards,

          George
        • Br Benjamin Assisi
          in this group yes, this group is very much just a study/history group... interesting I guess...but flawed, a bit like a muslim studying catholicism useful to a
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 24, 2008
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            in this group yes,

            this group is very much just a study/history group...

            interesting I guess...but flawed, a bit like a muslim studying catholicism

            useful to a point.

            Arguing at the AGCA??? We are discussing a central core, well I am trying to attempt one, Personally It think there are few "universals" in Gnosticism unknowable god, illusion, no dogma etc.  I dont find any problem in seeing that out side "Gnosticism" either... But I realize in this group and others, its mostly an exercise in separation, putting that substance in a centrifuge and seeing what you get.  So I am here to lurk mostly...

            On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 3:02 PM, George <historynow2002@...> wrote:
            Brother Benjamin:

            Indeed, I had worked under the assumption that we were looking
            for what was the central CORE of these various groups, rather
            than an historical view of who, and what, and where.

            I presume I was in error?

            Regards,

            George



            --
            Better than one thousand verses
            Where no profit wings the word,
            Is one solitary stanza
            Bringing peace of mind when heard.
          • lady_caritas
            Brother George and Brother Ben, Since the focus of this forum is the decision of its moderators, I feel inclined to briefly interject my thoughts here. You
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 24, 2008
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              Brother George and Brother Ben,

              Since the focus of this forum is the decision of its moderators, I feel inclined to briefly interject my thoughts here.

              You both have been members here for a while, so I find this conversation rather puzzling.  Not only do new members receive a letter specifically discussing our focus, but we also provide a statement on our homepage that you might want to review, which serves to further remind members and readers of our focus.

              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gnosticism2/

              That said, regarding your query, George:

              Indeed, I had worked under the assumption that we were looking
              for what was the central CORE of these various groups, rather
              than an historical view of who, and what, and where.

              I presume I was in error?

              And Ben's reply:

              in this group yes,

              Ben, I disagree.  I do not view any of these subjects George lists as mutually exclusive, as long as members remember that we discuss such matters and any modern day comparisons and interests in direct relation to the context of these historical groups of the Late Antiquities.  We offer a focus with the understanding that this provides but one important aspect and perspective within the huge subject of spirituality.

              We have had umpteen discussions and complaints about focus in this group.  I imagine I am not the only one who is tired of these recurring conversations. 

              Therefore, I suggest that if you are interested in a subject appropriate to our group, please feel free to start a thread and we moderators will step in to guide if the subject gets too far off base.

              If anyone has any problems with our focus, then no one is twisting their arm to enter conversation.  It's that simple.

              Thank you.

              Cari


              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Br Benjamin Assisi" <brbenjaminassisi@...> wrote:
              >
              > in this group yes,
              >
              > this group is very much just a study/history group...
              >
              > interesting I guess...but flawed, a bit like a muslim studying catholicism
              >
              > useful to a point.
              >
              > Arguing at the AGCA??? We are discussing a central core, well I am trying to
              > attempt one, Personally It think there are few "universals" in Gnosticism
              > unknowable god, illusion, no dogma etc. I dont find any problem in seeing
              > that out side "Gnosticism" either... But I realize in this group and others,
              > its mostly an exercise in separation, putting that substance in a centrifuge
              > and seeing what you get. So I am here to lurk mostly...
              >
              > On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 3:02 PM, George historynow2002@... wrote:
              >
              > > Brother Benjamin:
              > >
              > > Indeed, I had worked under the assumption that we were looking
              > > for what was the central CORE of these various groups, rather
              > > than an historical view of who, and what, and where.
              > >
              > > I presume I was in error?
              > >
              > > Regards,
              > >
              > > George
              > >
              > >
              >
              > --
              > Better than one thousand verses
              > Where no profit wings the word,
              > Is one solitary stanza
              > Bringing peace of mind when heard.
              >

            • pmcvflag
              ... appropriate to our group, please feel free to start a thread and we moderators will step in to guide if the subject gets too far off base.
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 24, 2008
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                >>>Therefore, I suggest that if you are interested in a subject
                appropriate to our group, please feel free to start a thread and we
                moderators will step in to guide if the subject gets too far off
                base.<<<

                It seems that Lady Cari has pointed to the obvious next step, so I
                will leave it at that and move from this conversation to the two that
                do relate to our focus. Thanks for keeping us on track, Lady Cari.

                PMCV
              • Gerry
                ... Only umpteen? Geez! Strange how it has seemed more like a gazillion, innit. Gerry ... Only umpteen ? Geez! Strange how it has seemed more like a
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 24, 2008
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                  --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, lady_caritas <no_reply@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > […]
                  >
                  > We have had umpteen discussions and complaints about focus in this
                  > group. I imagine I am not the only one who is tired of these recurring
                  > conversations.
                  >
                  >
                  > Cari
                  >

                   

                  Only umpteen?  Geez!  Strange how it has seemed more like a gazillion, innit.

                  Gerry

                • pmcvflag
                  Hey George ... a more modern period?
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 24, 2008
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                    Hey George

                    >>>Chronologically speaking, where do we draw the line into
                    a more modern period?<<<

                    If I recall the Messina definition simply states "the Late
                    Antiquities" as an attribute of the "Gnosticism" category (up to about
                    500 C.E. was the common date). However, since that time it seems most
                    scholars have dealt with the issue more on the front of specific
                    belief systems. This is probably more reasonable since if we found a
                    text by a Sethian sect still existing in the Medieval era we would
                    have to include it.

                    The more important attributes that scholars generally look at as
                    definitive include cosmology/cosmogeny, soteriology, and a specific
                    cultural origin (Hellenistic/"Biblical" syncratism).

                    PMCV
                  • Mark
                    a bit like a muslim studying catholicism No, more like a modern gnostic studying his (or her) roots in historical Gnosticism. Many things are useful to a
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 25, 2008
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                      "a bit like a muslim studying catholicism"

                      No, more like a modern gnostic studying his (or her) roots in
                      historical Gnosticism. Many things are useful to a point--and the
                      point is often knowing that point. The flaw may be in your
                      expectations and not in the purpose of this list.

                      Mark

                      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Br Benjamin Assisi"
                      <brbenjaminassisi@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > in this group yes,
                      >
                      > this group is very much just a study/history group...
                      >
                      > interesting I guess...but flawed, a bit like a muslim studying
                      catholicism
                      >
                      > useful to a point.
                      >
                      > Arguing at the AGCA??? We are discussing a central core, well I am
                      trying to
                      > attempt one, Personally It think there are few "universals" in
                      Gnosticism
                      > unknowable god, illusion, no dogma etc. I dont find any problem in
                      seeing
                      > that out side "Gnosticism" either... But I realize in this group
                      and others,
                      > its mostly an exercise in separation, putting that substance in a
                      centrifuge
                      > and seeing what you get. So I am here to lurk mostly...
                      >
                      > On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 3:02 PM, George <historynow2002@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > > Brother Benjamin:
                      > >
                      > > Indeed, I had worked under the assumption that we were looking
                      > > for what was the central CORE of these various groups, rather
                      > > than an historical view of who, and what, and where.
                      > >
                      > > I presume I was in error?
                      > >
                      > > Regards,
                      > >
                      > > George
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Better than one thousand verses
                      > Where no profit wings the word,
                      > Is one solitary stanza
                      > Bringing peace of mind when heard.
                      >
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