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Re: A fresh start

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  • pmcvflag
    Ben ... Do you support the focus of this forum within the context of this forum? PMCV
    Message 1 of 19 , Mar 21, 2008
      Ben

      >>>isnt that heresy in this group? lol<<<

      Do you support the focus of this forum within the context of this
      forum?

      PMCV
    • pmcvflag
      Ben ... this group?
      Message 2 of 19 , Mar 21, 2008
        Ben

        >>>how on earth do you see the golden dawn related to the focus of
        this group?<<<

        I don't.

        More specifically (and we do like to be specific here), if you were
        literally asking how the focus of this forum could be "related" to the
        Golden Dawn, then I guess one could argue that they are both esoteric
        systems. On the other hand, if you were asking whether extended
        conversation about the Golden Dawn is welcome here.... no, it isn't.
        Not unless it is done explicitely to compare/contrast it to
        traditional Gnostic ideas.

        Let me be the first to point out that my own path is also not
        technically Gnostic (in the historic sense of the word), and I don't
        talk about it here. If I, one of the mods, am not allowed to blather
        on about my own path here.... don't you think that rule applies to
        others as well?

        PMCV
      • Br Benjamin Assisi
        I think the focus of the forum is largely one sided, dry and imbalanced BUT I wouldnt be here if I didnt see any value in it ... -- Better than one thousand
        Message 3 of 19 , Mar 21, 2008
          I think the focus of the forum is largely one sided, dry and imbalanced

          BUT

          I wouldnt be here if I didnt see any value in it

          On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 7:41 PM, pmcvflag <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
          Ben

          >>>isnt that heresy in this group? lol<<<

          Do you support the focus of this forum within the context of this
          forum?

          PMCV


          ------------------------------------

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          --
          Better than one thousand verses
          Where no profit wings the word,
          Is one solitary stanza
          Bringing peace of mind when heard.
        • Br Benjamin Assisi
          yes that rule seems rather silly like going to a grocer, buying a pound of apples and refusing to eat them but its your group..if you wish it to be divorced
          Message 4 of 19 , Mar 21, 2008
            yes that rule seems rather silly

            like going to a grocer, buying a pound of apples and refusing to eat them

            but its your group..if you wish it to be divorced that is your choice
            On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 7:59 PM, pmcvflag <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:


            Let me be the first to point out that my own path is also not
            technically Gnostic (in the historic sense of the word), and I don't
            talk about it here. If I, one of the mods, am not allowed to blather
            on about my own path here.... don't you think that rule applies to
            others as well?

            PMCV


            ------------------------------------

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               http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gnosticism2/

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            --
            Better than one thousand verses
            Where no profit wings the word,
            Is one solitary stanza
            Bringing peace of mind when heard.
          • pmcvflag
            Ben ... pound of apples and refusing to eat them but its your group..
            Message 5 of 19 , Mar 21, 2008
              Ben

              >>>yes that rule seems rather silly like going to a grocer, buying a
              pound of apples and refusing to eat them but its your group..<<<

              Just because we don't jump to the floor and eat our apples right
              there in the produce section does not mean we don't know what an
              apple can be. You seem to imply that a scientist who is looking at
              the botanical nature of an apple is somehow unable to enjoy the
              flavor. Be careful about the assumptions you make.

              >>>if you wish it to be divorced that is your choice<<<

              Yes, thank you, it is our choice. Not only that, even if you don't
              understand it there could be a good reason for it. The only thing
              you have to figure out is whether you can support it or not.

              >>>I think the focus of the forum is largely one sided, dry and
              imbalanced BUT I wouldnt be here if I didnt see any value in it<<<

              Good, then foster that value rather than undermining it.

              PMCV
            • George
              Perhaps I had forgotten, or perhaps I never realized, that the focus on the group was on the ancient groups. Chronologically speaking, where do we draw the
              Message 6 of 19 , Mar 23, 2008
                Perhaps I had forgotten, or perhaps I never realized,
                that the focus on the group was on the ancient groups.

                Chronologically speaking, where do we draw the line into
                a more modern period?

                Regards,

                George
              • George
                Brother Benjamin: Indeed, I had worked under the assumption that we were looking for what was the central CORE of these various groups, rather than an
                Message 7 of 19 , Mar 23, 2008
                  Brother Benjamin:

                  Indeed, I had worked under the assumption that we were looking
                  for what was the central CORE of these various groups, rather
                  than an historical view of who, and what, and where.

                  I presume I was in error?

                  Regards,

                  George
                • Br Benjamin Assisi
                  in this group yes, this group is very much just a study/history group... interesting I guess...but flawed, a bit like a muslim studying catholicism useful to a
                  Message 8 of 19 , Mar 24, 2008
                    in this group yes,

                    this group is very much just a study/history group...

                    interesting I guess...but flawed, a bit like a muslim studying catholicism

                    useful to a point.

                    Arguing at the AGCA??? We are discussing a central core, well I am trying to attempt one, Personally It think there are few "universals" in Gnosticism unknowable god, illusion, no dogma etc.  I dont find any problem in seeing that out side "Gnosticism" either... But I realize in this group and others, its mostly an exercise in separation, putting that substance in a centrifuge and seeing what you get.  So I am here to lurk mostly...

                    On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 3:02 PM, George <historynow2002@...> wrote:
                    Brother Benjamin:

                    Indeed, I had worked under the assumption that we were looking
                    for what was the central CORE of these various groups, rather
                    than an historical view of who, and what, and where.

                    I presume I was in error?

                    Regards,

                    George



                    --
                    Better than one thousand verses
                    Where no profit wings the word,
                    Is one solitary stanza
                    Bringing peace of mind when heard.
                  • lady_caritas
                    Brother George and Brother Ben, Since the focus of this forum is the decision of its moderators, I feel inclined to briefly interject my thoughts here. You
                    Message 9 of 19 , Mar 24, 2008

                      Brother George and Brother Ben,

                      Since the focus of this forum is the decision of its moderators, I feel inclined to briefly interject my thoughts here.

                      You both have been members here for a while, so I find this conversation rather puzzling.  Not only do new members receive a letter specifically discussing our focus, but we also provide a statement on our homepage that you might want to review, which serves to further remind members and readers of our focus.

                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gnosticism2/

                      That said, regarding your query, George:

                      Indeed, I had worked under the assumption that we were looking
                      for what was the central CORE of these various groups, rather
                      than an historical view of who, and what, and where.

                      I presume I was in error?

                      And Ben's reply:

                      in this group yes,

                      Ben, I disagree.  I do not view any of these subjects George lists as mutually exclusive, as long as members remember that we discuss such matters and any modern day comparisons and interests in direct relation to the context of these historical groups of the Late Antiquities.  We offer a focus with the understanding that this provides but one important aspect and perspective within the huge subject of spirituality.

                      We have had umpteen discussions and complaints about focus in this group.  I imagine I am not the only one who is tired of these recurring conversations. 

                      Therefore, I suggest that if you are interested in a subject appropriate to our group, please feel free to start a thread and we moderators will step in to guide if the subject gets too far off base.

                      If anyone has any problems with our focus, then no one is twisting their arm to enter conversation.  It's that simple.

                      Thank you.

                      Cari


                      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Br Benjamin Assisi" <brbenjaminassisi@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > in this group yes,
                      >
                      > this group is very much just a study/history group...
                      >
                      > interesting I guess...but flawed, a bit like a muslim studying catholicism
                      >
                      > useful to a point.
                      >
                      > Arguing at the AGCA??? We are discussing a central core, well I am trying to
                      > attempt one, Personally It think there are few "universals" in Gnosticism
                      > unknowable god, illusion, no dogma etc. I dont find any problem in seeing
                      > that out side "Gnosticism" either... But I realize in this group and others,
                      > its mostly an exercise in separation, putting that substance in a centrifuge
                      > and seeing what you get. So I am here to lurk mostly...
                      >
                      > On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 3:02 PM, George historynow2002@... wrote:
                      >
                      > > Brother Benjamin:
                      > >
                      > > Indeed, I had worked under the assumption that we were looking
                      > > for what was the central CORE of these various groups, rather
                      > > than an historical view of who, and what, and where.
                      > >
                      > > I presume I was in error?
                      > >
                      > > Regards,
                      > >
                      > > George
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      > --
                      > Better than one thousand verses
                      > Where no profit wings the word,
                      > Is one solitary stanza
                      > Bringing peace of mind when heard.
                      >

                    • pmcvflag
                      ... appropriate to our group, please feel free to start a thread and we moderators will step in to guide if the subject gets too far off base.
                      Message 10 of 19 , Mar 24, 2008
                        >>>Therefore, I suggest that if you are interested in a subject
                        appropriate to our group, please feel free to start a thread and we
                        moderators will step in to guide if the subject gets too far off
                        base.<<<

                        It seems that Lady Cari has pointed to the obvious next step, so I
                        will leave it at that and move from this conversation to the two that
                        do relate to our focus. Thanks for keeping us on track, Lady Cari.

                        PMCV
                      • Gerry
                        ... Only umpteen? Geez! Strange how it has seemed more like a gazillion, innit. Gerry ... Only umpteen ? Geez! Strange how it has seemed more like a
                        Message 11 of 19 , Mar 24, 2008


                          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, lady_caritas <no_reply@...> wrote:

                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > […]
                          >
                          > We have had umpteen discussions and complaints about focus in this
                          > group. I imagine I am not the only one who is tired of these recurring
                          > conversations.
                          >
                          >
                          > Cari
                          >

                           

                          Only umpteen?  Geez!  Strange how it has seemed more like a gazillion, innit.

                          Gerry

                        • pmcvflag
                          Hey George ... a more modern period?
                          Message 12 of 19 , Mar 24, 2008
                            Hey George

                            >>>Chronologically speaking, where do we draw the line into
                            a more modern period?<<<

                            If I recall the Messina definition simply states "the Late
                            Antiquities" as an attribute of the "Gnosticism" category (up to about
                            500 C.E. was the common date). However, since that time it seems most
                            scholars have dealt with the issue more on the front of specific
                            belief systems. This is probably more reasonable since if we found a
                            text by a Sethian sect still existing in the Medieval era we would
                            have to include it.

                            The more important attributes that scholars generally look at as
                            definitive include cosmology/cosmogeny, soteriology, and a specific
                            cultural origin (Hellenistic/"Biblical" syncratism).

                            PMCV
                          • Mark
                            a bit like a muslim studying catholicism No, more like a modern gnostic studying his (or her) roots in historical Gnosticism. Many things are useful to a
                            Message 13 of 19 , Mar 25, 2008
                              "a bit like a muslim studying catholicism"

                              No, more like a modern gnostic studying his (or her) roots in
                              historical Gnosticism. Many things are useful to a point--and the
                              point is often knowing that point. The flaw may be in your
                              expectations and not in the purpose of this list.

                              Mark

                              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Br Benjamin Assisi"
                              <brbenjaminassisi@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > in this group yes,
                              >
                              > this group is very much just a study/history group...
                              >
                              > interesting I guess...but flawed, a bit like a muslim studying
                              catholicism
                              >
                              > useful to a point.
                              >
                              > Arguing at the AGCA??? We are discussing a central core, well I am
                              trying to
                              > attempt one, Personally It think there are few "universals" in
                              Gnosticism
                              > unknowable god, illusion, no dogma etc. I dont find any problem in
                              seeing
                              > that out side "Gnosticism" either... But I realize in this group
                              and others,
                              > its mostly an exercise in separation, putting that substance in a
                              centrifuge
                              > and seeing what you get. So I am here to lurk mostly...
                              >
                              > On Sun, Mar 23, 2008 at 3:02 PM, George <historynow2002@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > > Brother Benjamin:
                              > >
                              > > Indeed, I had worked under the assumption that we were looking
                              > > for what was the central CORE of these various groups, rather
                              > > than an historical view of who, and what, and where.
                              > >
                              > > I presume I was in error?
                              > >
                              > > Regards,
                              > >
                              > > George
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > --
                              > Better than one thousand verses
                              > Where no profit wings the word,
                              > Is one solitary stanza
                              > Bringing peace of mind when heard.
                              >
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