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Re: Valentinus & the Valentinians this Week on CCG!!!

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  • pmcvflag
    Hey Mark and Miguel The term Pope did not exist in the time of Valentinus. However, when the office was invented the term was retroactively applied to all
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 23, 2008
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      Hey Mark and Miguel

      The term "Pope" did not exist in the time of Valentinus. However,
      when the office was invented the term was retroactively applied to
      all bishops of Rome prior to that time. In other words, in the time
      of Valentinus a bishop was a bishop... Roman or otherwise. However,
      if he HAD become this particular bishop he would have later been
      known as "Pope" (even though he would have not been familiar with
      the term as applied to Christianity), which means the term is very
      much anachronistic but important all the same.

      The issue has also been raised as to whether it was true that
      Valentinus really did come so close to being bishop of Rome (as you
      say, Miguel, perhaps "legendary"), but I can believe that he may
      really have. Even some of Valentinus' enemies admitted that he was
      something special. Perhaps he was the classic case of the person who
      is trying to say something that just can't be reduced for popular
      understanding.

      PMCV


      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Conner <miguelconner@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Hi Mark,
      >
      > You might be right. We don't hear about this story until after
      200 from Tertullian. The post he ran for was Bishop of Rome, that
      is still one of the titles for the Pope. Yet there were hundreds of
      Christianities at the time, the Roman Church just being a small
      section.
      >
      > Maybe not a true anachronism but certainly possible to be mere
      legendry.
      >
      > Miguel
      >
      > Mark <larockpitts@...> wrote: Miguel,
      >
      > I may be mistaken, but isn't it a bit anachronistic to say that
      > Valentinus almost became "Pope." At the time of Valentinus, he
      would
      > have almost become simply "the Bishop of Rome," which was one
      > bishopric among others. Using the word "Pope" sounds a little
      > sensationalistic, unless your program has a Catholic slant,
      instead
      > of an historical one.
      >
      > Again, I may be mistaken. Perhaps others can correct me.
      >
      > Mark
      >
      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "miguelconner"
      <miguelconner@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Valentinus & The Valentinians. Besides being a poetic genius
      and an
      > > ethereal philosopher, Valentinus was the Gnostic who allegedly
      > almost
      > > became Pope and might have changed the course of the Church in
      > > history. He and his followers created some of the most
      beautiful,
      > > unifying theology of early Christianity, including the concept
      of
      > the
      > > Trinity, a redeemed Demiurge, and a positive view of the
      cosmos. We
      > > evoke their amazing contribution to Christian thought before
      they
      > were
      > > crushed under the fury of Orthodoxy in the Fourth Century.
      > >
      > > Astral Guest— Einar Thomassen, author of `The Spiritual Seed:
      The
      > > Church of the Valentinians' and one of the original translators
      of
      > the
      > > Nag Hammadi Library.
      > >
      > > Topics Discussed:
      > >
      > > --Separating the legend from the history of Valentinus of
      > Alexandria.
      > > --Understanding the softer, poetic and yet astral Gnosticism of
      the
      > > Valentinians (and the different schools within this Gnostic
      sect).
      > > --Evidence stating that Valentinus received his theology from
      the
      > > Syrian Christian viewpoint and not Alexandria.
      > > --Finally understanding what exactly was the Sacrament of the
      Bridal
      > > Chamber.
      > > --Why did Valentinus consider the Apostle Paul the Elvis of the
      > > ancient times?
      > > --Like most Gnostic Schools, how not everyone receives
      salvation
      > and why.
      > > --Why faith was as important as gnosis to the Valentinians.
      > > --How Valentinus saw the death and resurrection of the Christ.
      > >
      > > And much more!
      > >
      > > As always to access the program:
      > >
      > > --Go to my homepage http://www.thegodabovegod.com/
      > > --Scroll down until you see the Stickam screen (the eye with the
      > > bloody tear)
      > > --Click the music icon and voila…'Coffee, Cigarettes & Gnosis
      80—
      > The
      > > Mandaeans, the Last Gnostics' will appear in its entirety!
      > >
      > > There are over eighty shows for download at our homepage on all
      > things
      > > Gnostic and its brethren in the Esoterica. We have some of the
      > > leading scholars and Gnostic sages of our days including Stephan
      > > Hoeller, Timothy Freke, John Turner, Marvin Meyer, Margaret
      > Starbird,
      > > Bart Ehrman, Bierger Pearson, Acharya S., and Robert Price,
      just to
      > > name a few.
      > >
      > > Also, shows can now be purchased on CD at half the price and
      twice
      > the
      > > quality. Simply email me at Miguel.conner@ for more details.
      > >
      > > Our rebroadcast this week is `CCG #55-- Caesar's Messiah' with
      Joe
      > > Atwill, author of 'Caesar's Messiah'
      > >
      > > Is it possible that the historical Jesus might have been a
      creation
      > by
      > > the Roman nobility in order to marginalize the Jews and Pagan
      > > religions? That the Gospels are both satire and propaganda for
      the
      > > powerbrokers of the Empire? That Jesus is just a mask for a
      certain
      > > Roman Emperor who wished to create his own mystery religion?
      Sure,
      > why
      > > not? Anything is possible in Gnosticism.
      > >
      > > Topics Discussed:
      > > --Who was the Roman Emperor who concocted Jesus Christ in order
      to
      > > tame the Jews and create a new mystery cult for the gentiles?
      > > --How the Roman quelling of the Jewish revolution eerily
      matches the
      > > ministry of Jesus of Nazareth.
      > > --The Apostle Paul: true believer or pro-Roman agent
      > extraordinaire?
      > > --Where exactly do the Gnostics fit in the new religion created
      by
      > the
      > > Roman powers that be?
      > > --Understand the science of typology and how it is the key to
      > > unraveling many mysteries of the New Testament.
      > > --Josephus: greatest of ancient historians or the individual who
      > > created one of the greatest parodies on mankind?
      > > --How the Roman kingmakers not only re-wrote Jewish history but
      > > purposefully planned the Dark Ages.
      > >
      > > And much more! History just isn't written by the victors, but
      also
      > the
      > > psyche of an entire hemisphere.
      > >
      > > Abraxas
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Visit http://thegodabovegod.com/ and become part of the new
      Renaissance of Gnosticism and Truthseeking.
      >
      > ---------------------------------
      > Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with
      Yahoo! Search.
      >
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