Re: Faith vs Experience
- Hey Guy
You sate some of the same things multiple times in the recent group
of posts, allow me to answer them all together in one response so
that our forum isn't flooded with our conversation.
You state in post 13386...
>>>Are you still playing devil's advocate :-) and testing me if Ihave integrity with what I am writing about?<<<
You misunderstand my intent, Guy. My purpose in playing "devil's
advocate" is not to test your integrity. Instead it is a common forum
method that mods use simply to help foster conversation by raising
issues about points. If you look back through conversation here you
will find that I challenge points that are often debated whether I
agree with them or not... and sometimes I have even challenged my own
points in this way. Somebody in here once said something that I think
you will find true of scholars and Gnostics alike "... in a room of
10 you will get 11 opinions).
The challenge is also meant to help us all explain ourselves better
by looking closely things that could foster misunderstanding.
Now on to your definitions. You state...
>>>When I use words I like to use them as they are stated in thedictionary and the dictionary<<<
A dictionary is a great tool so far as it goes. Most people have
something called a "common usage" dictionary. Some people have
dictionaries that include etymological definitions as well. There may
even be a few of us here who have articles or technical manuals that
include academic definitions of the words that come up here. Not all
dictionaries deal with words in the same way and for the same
There is a problem with common usage dictionary definitions though,
in that they are generally written to give a person who is not
familiar with a word a basic outline so they can deal with the word
in a short term setting. If you look up a word like "Existentialism"
in a common usage dictionary you are not going to get a full outline
that a practicing Existentialist would agree with. If we asked
somebody like Jonas, or Heidegger, they would be justified in telling
us that they can provide a better definition than the dictionary. If
we are talking about Existentialism in a long term and more indepth
setting we would have to come to understand the word better than the
dictionary can outline for us.
Likewise, this forum is dealing with terms like "Gnosis"
and "Gnosticism" in a way that is far more indepth and technical than
you will find it stated in the dictionary. If you look in our links
section and our files section you will find a lexicon that gives some
deeper outlines of these terms as they relate to historical
Gnosticism. It could help.
More specifically you give this definition ....
>>>post·mod·ern or post-mod·ern adj. Of or relating to art,architecture, or literature that reacts against earlier modernist
principles, as by reintroducing traditional or classical elements of
style or by carrying modernist styles or practices to extremes<<<
You then state...
>>>As you can see by the dictionary's definition postmodernism is areaction against earlier modernist principles, as by reintroducing
traditional or classical elements of style or by carrying modernist
styles or practices to extremes. I carry modernistic practice of the
scientific method to the extreme as well as reacting against blind
If we take a closer look at the definition you gave it makes a point
that I made previously as well, which is that it is dealing with a
reaction to the "Modernist" movement in ART and LITERATURE.... not a
worldview. Since I did not recall you mentioning artistic movements
in your previous post I am sure you can forgive my misunderstanding
of your intent as being completely reasonable. Modernism in art is
not the same as the modern period of scientific rationalism. This is
why I assumed you must be talking about the other common meaning of
the term "Postmodernism", which refers to a philosophical movement
that grew out of Existentialism. The two usages of the term are
Having explained my misunderstanding of your intent (and perhaps some
misunderstanding on your part about what the dictionary is actually
saying there), I believe I understand what you meant now. This makes
much more sense, so thank you for taking the time to make your intent
There is one last thing you stated that perhaps you can explain
>>>I am only concerned with the Gnostic final goal of spiritualliberation.<<<
Just as you agreed that there is "gnosis" and there is "Gnosis"...
there is also "gnostic" and there is "Gnostic". Previously you stated
you were talking about "gnosis" with the small "g", so I am wondering
if in this case you actually meant "gnostic" with a small "g"? (just
a question) After all, the "gnostic" seeks "gnosis", while
the "Gnostic" seeks "Gnosis". The "Gnostic" notion of spiritual
liberation is not in all cases the same as the "gnostic" notion of
spiritual liberation. I have been doing this for many many years now,
and I think you would be shocked to hear what some "gnostics"
think "gnosis" is. I think if you had heard them you may understand
why I am being so careful with the words here, and trying to be sure
I understand what you mean.
- SORRY. :)
>>>> Seemed like all your other posts to me. :)<<<
> Doh! Just because you are right doesn't mean you are not a pain in the
> ass! *lol*. If you can let a guy PRETEND his spelling is not ALWAYS
> bad you let him keep his dignity.... if just a little. You know...
> just for the sake of Chivalry. ;)
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