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Re: Faith vs Experience

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  • Phil
    Knowledge is only yours in experience, in experience do the things which we think we know actually become KNOW. Ra Hi Ra So, knowledge becomes knowing in the
    Message 1 of 111 , Jan 3, 2008
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      "Knowledge is only yours in experience, in experience do the things
      which we think we know actually become KNOW."
      Ra

      Hi Ra
      So, knowledge becomes knowing in the experience of it? Surely there
      are experiences that are every bit as delusional as any conceptual
      knowledge. As a simple example, if one is frightened by a rope,
      thinking that it is a snake, such experience may confirm ones
      knowledge that there are snakes about, and yet it would be in error.
      We could come up with infinite variations on this theme, including
      various mind states that we refer to as spiritual experiences.

      And so the point is really to ask, in the event that it is not
      experience that prooves ones knowing, what does it mean to know? Or
      to put it another way, "How do we know that we know?" All conceptual
      knowledge is subject to this same limitation; one cannot know what is
      true because conceptual truth is contextual. In the context of
      Gnosis, I suggest that knowingness is not conceptual, and therefore
      not subject to proof, nor is it in the realm of true and false.

      Phil



      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "the_passerby7777"
      <rahimalka@...> wrote:
      >
      > Celeste,
      >
      > Just as it was said in the Epistle of James that faith without works
      > is dead, so is faith without Gnosis dead. For faith to be geniune it
      > must be active and conscious, this deals with movement, the applying
      > of those principles and concepts within yourself, seeking to prove
      all
      > things. Faith is foundational, you must have faith in the fact that
      > what you are doing is going to reap some benefit, that the
      forces/laws
      > of life that you invoke by living the truth as you understand will
      > give you greater capacity enabling you to progress further into the
      > indwelling Kingdom of Light.
      >
      > Imo Gnostics aren't to take anything on face value, but must seek to
      > prove everything, as it is in their power to. They must come to
      > perceive why the Gnostics of old styled this world in the fashion
      they
      > did, one must come to understand and perceive the reality of the
      > Demiurge in their own experience, in fact perceive the totality of
      it
      > for it to be Self Knowledge which can be utilized to further your
      > advancements in Gnosis, which is salvific. In this way your faith
      > becomes alive, an experience proven within yourself which sustains
      and
      > is the proof of your mind expanding beyond the earth-bound state.
      > Knowledge is only yours in experience, in experience do the things
      > which we think we know actually become KNOW.
      >
      > Faith is the beginning, it is the level of believer, which is
      brought
      > into being faith since they have what is least in the beginning
      which
      > must be built upon. In applying what they have in hand, being
      faithful
      > to that aspect of Truth, their capacity for it will increase. One
      has
      > to have faith in the beginning because they know nothing, but an
      image
      > of the ideal, but as they progress they start to become that very
      > ideal, they become the result of their faith through their
      attainment.
      > Most believers don't know why they have to do the things they do,
      > which means that they are operating in ignorance. There is a great
      > difference in doing something with consciousness and knowing, then
      > doing it without.
      >
      > At least that is my take.
      >
      > Peace
      >
      > Ra.
      >
      >
      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "celesstn" <bicyclesophie@>
      wrote:
      > >
      > > I certainly had faith that what I studied in Gnosticism was true,
      and
      > > later began to have experiences that validated what I was
      studying.
      > > So, yes I believe that both can certainly be true, I think this
      would
      > > depend upon the seeker.
      > >
      > > celeste
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, theoj678@ wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > In a message dated 12/25/2007 9:35:36 A.M. Eastern Standard
      Time,
      > > > larockpitts@ writes:
      > > >
      > > > Are faith and experience mutually exclusive?
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > ---------
      > > > Or do we have faith in our knowledge and experiences,
      > > > faith that what we have been taught is reasonable and true?
      > > > (until a greater truth is discovered and explained or is
      > > understandable)???
      > > > theo
      > > >
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > **************************************See AOL's top rated
      recipes
      > > > (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?
      NCID=aoltop00030000000004)
      > > >
      > >
      >
    • Michael Leavitt
      SORRY. :)
      Message 111 of 111 , Jan 16, 2008
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        SORRY. :)

        pmcvflag wrote:
        > Michael...
        >
        >
        >>>> Seemed like all your other posts to me. :)<<<
        >>>>
        >
        > Doh! Just because you are right doesn't mean you are not a pain in the
        > ass! *lol*. If you can let a guy PRETEND his spelling is not ALWAYS
        > bad you let him keep his dignity.... if just a little. You know...
        > just for the sake of Chivalry. ;)
        >
        > PMCV
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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