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VALIS

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  • Timothy Fuhrmeister
    Hi All: I have some thoughts I would like to bounce off of everyone about Philip K. Dick and Gnosticism. I m reading VALIS again after several years and it s
    Message 1 of 10 , Aug 22 8:20 AM
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      Hi All:

      I have some thoughts I would like to bounce off of everyone about
      Philip K. Dick and Gnosticism. I'm reading VALIS again after several
      years and it's blowing my mind all over again! As some of you know
      VALIS(Vast,Active,Living,Intellegence,System) is PDK's incarnation of
      the Logos or the true God. It is bassicly the universe as Einstein and
      Heraclitus thought of it-Hylozoism.
      Now Valis created our reality as a sort of mirror image so that it
      could get a objective stand point to comprehend it's own self. The
      universe is motivated to seek a instrument for self awareness.
      PDK calls the Demi-urge ZEBRA becuase it mimics reality and we are
      not aware of it, this reality is in fact a hologram. Today I ran
      across the Holographic principle. Some scientists when looking at the
      nature of black holes and the entropy in them came up with the theory
      that volume is somehow illusory, the third dimension does not exsist,
      and that the universe is actually a hologram.
      Maybe PDK was onto something?
      This also fits in with Hyper Reality theory.
      This could explain the actions of God in the OT and notably in the
      book of Job where God seems almost unaware of the evil he is doing.
      According to PDK the goal of all this is for VALIS to discover his
      true nature.Once that happens who knows? Probably some book of
      Revalations type stuff.
      I am still trying to wrap my head around all this, any help?
      Tim-
    • Miguel Conner
      Hi Tim, I would say that Valis is a bona fide Gnostic gospel, IMO. When I read it a year after studying Gnosticism a light bulb flashed in my head and heart.
      Message 2 of 10 , Aug 22 9:31 AM
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        Hi Tim,

        I would say that Valis is a bona fide Gnostic gospel, IMO.  When I read it a year after studying Gnosticism a light bulb flashed in my head and heart.  Everything made sense.

        But Valis is the tip of the iceberg in Dick's discovery of his own gnosis.  Much of his insights were written in his Exegisis and other works.  Here is a Gnostic forum that has all of PKD's Gnostic works beyond Valis:

        http://www.palmtreegarden.org/forum/viewforum.php?id=33

        Miguel


        Timothy Fuhrmeister <timfuhrmeister@...> wrote:
        Hi All:

        I have some thoughts I would like to bounce off of everyone about
        Philip K. Dick and Gnosticism. I'm reading VALIS again after several
        years and it's blowing my mind all over again! As some of you know
        VALIS(Vast,Active, Living,Intellege nce,System) is PDK's incarnation of
        the Logos or the true God. It is bassicly the universe as Einstein and
        Heraclitus thought of it-Hylozoism.
        Now Valis created our reality as a sort of mirror image so that it
        could get a objective stand point to comprehend it's own self. The
        universe is motivated to seek a instrument for self awareness.
        PDK calls the Demi-urge ZEBRA becuase it mimics reality and we are
        not aware of it, this reality is in fact a hologram. Today I ran
        across the Holographic principle. Some scientists when looking at the
        nature of black holes and the entropy in them came up with the theory
        that volume is somehow illusory, the third dimension does not exsist,
        and that the universe is actually a hologram.
        Maybe PDK was onto something?
        This also fits in with Hyper Reality theory.
        This could explain the actions of God in the OT and notably in the
        book of Job where God seems almost unaware of the evil he is doing.
        According to PDK the goal of all this is for VALIS to discover his
        true nature.Once that happens who knows? Probably some book of
        Revalations type stuff.
        I am still trying to wrap my head around all this, any help?
        Tim-





        Visit http://thegodabovegod.com/ and become part of the new Renaissance of Gnosticism and Truthseeking.


        Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
        Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.

      • Verna Leigh Johnson
        Well, gnostically speaking, Revelations describes the Holy Roman Church and its priests and cannons(approved scripture) taking over the early blossoming
        Message 3 of 10 , Aug 22 10:53 AM
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          Well, gnostically speaking, Revelations describes the Holy Roman
          Church and its priests and cannons(approved scripture) taking over
          the early blossoming christian church, and not for the better
          (obviously).
          But the rest of this I know nothing about. Fascinating. Is there a
          link?
          blessings and peas
          DarkChylde


          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy Fuhrmeister"
          <timfuhrmeister@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi All:
          >
          > I have some thoughts I would like to bounce off of everyone about
          > Philip K. Dick and Gnosticism. I'm reading VALIS again after several
          > years and it's blowing my mind all over again! As some of you know
          > VALIS(Vast,Active,Living,Intellegence,System) is PDK's incarnation
          of
          > the Logos or the true God. It is bassicly the universe as Einstein
          and
          > Heraclitus thought of it-Hylozoism.
          > Now Valis created our reality as a sort of mirror image so that it
          > could get a objective stand point to comprehend it's own self. The
          > universe is motivated to seek a instrument for self awareness.
          > PDK calls the Demi-urge ZEBRA becuase it mimics reality and we are
          > not aware of it, this reality is in fact a hologram. Today I ran
          > across the Holographic principle. Some scientists when looking at
          the
          > nature of black holes and the entropy in them came up with the
          theory
          > that volume is somehow illusory, the third dimension does not
          exsist,
          > and that the universe is actually a hologram.
          > Maybe PDK was onto something?
          > This also fits in with Hyper Reality theory.
          > This could explain the actions of God in the OT and notably in the
          > book of Job where God seems almost unaware of the evil he is doing.
          > According to PDK the goal of all this is for VALIS to discover his
          > true nature.Once that happens who knows? Probably some book of
          > Revalations type stuff.
          > I am still trying to wrap my head around all this, any help?
          > Tim-
          >
        • dwain
          ... [1] when you look at quantum physics, matter does not exist. i know, i know i should have spoken up in that thread, but anyway, everything vibrates at a
          Message 4 of 10 , Aug 22 1:48 PM
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            >
            >
            > Some scientists when looking at
            > the
            > > nature of black holes and the entropy in them came up with the
            > theory
            > > that volume is somehow illusory, the third dimension does not
            > exsist, [1]
            >
            >
            >
            [1] when you look at quantum physics, matter does not exist. i know, i
            know i should have spoken up in that thread, but anyway, everything
            vibrates at a certain frequency, below that frequency and above that
            frequency it does not exist in a material sense on this plane of existence.

            to wrap your head around matter and existence and understand it from a
            gnostic (?) point of view i suggest you read the gospel of mary of
            magdala by karen armstrong.

            the great rabbi stated that you cannot serve god and mammon (spirit and
            matter). they are two different entities and cannot be mingled,
            although that is why mankind "fell from grace" if you will, it tried to
            mix spirit and matter and got caught up in the mess it's in today.

            reality is abstract and trying to make sense of the abstract in the
            physical is nearly impossible unless you can understand the conundrum
            created by the arguments.

            yes, the book of revelations was written for the orthodox church, but it
            was used to scare the people who were falling away from the church at
            the time, to kind of bring them back into the fold (baaa) and continue
            to perpetuate the message of jesus and solidify the church bureaucracy
            and control over the people.

            cheers,
            dwain

            --
            Dwain Alford
            http://www.alford-design-group.com
            "The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
            for his inner impulse must find suitable expression." Kandinsky
          • Verna Leigh Johnson
            I think a gnostic interpretation of Revelation would be the orthodox taking over the newly growing Christian faith, and it is all wrapped up with the
            Message 5 of 10 , Aug 22 4:36 PM
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              I think a gnostic interpretation of Revelation would be the
              orthodox 'taking over' the newly growing Christian faith, and it is
              all wrapped up with the politics of the day as well. The seven
              heads and the reference to the great whore is Rome (seven hills and
              seven roads into ROme), and what the established cannon and priest do
              to a faith never meant to go that way. John was the favorite of
              Valentians, and considered by many gnostics as another 'gnostic'
              disciple. (Particularly Valentians) His imagery used in the
              Apochryphon of John is repeated in Revelations, which is not a book
              of doom but an allegorical work describing the corruption of the
              message of Yahshua into the obscenity that became the Holy Roman
              Church. This was also referenced in the Gospel of Judas, which seems
              to slam so-called Christians hardest of all...
              But on everything else you are completely right, and I couldn't agree
              more. Just my thoughts about the book of Revelation.
              blessings and peas
              DarkChylde



              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, dwain <dwain.alford@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > >
              > >
              > > Some scientists when looking at
              > > the
              > > > nature of black holes and the entropy in them came up with the
              > > theory
              > > > that volume is somehow illusory, the third dimension does not
              > > exsist, [1]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > [1] when you look at quantum physics, matter does not exist. i
              know, i
              > know i should have spoken up in that thread, but anyway, everything
              > vibrates at a certain frequency, below that frequency and above
              that
              > frequency it does not exist in a material sense on this plane of
              existence.
              >
              > to wrap your head around matter and existence and understand it
              from a
              > gnostic (?) point of view i suggest you read the gospel of mary of
              > magdala by karen armstrong.
              >
              > the great rabbi stated that you cannot serve god and mammon (spirit
              and
              > matter). they are two different entities and cannot be mingled,
              > although that is why mankind "fell from grace" if you will, it
              tried to
              > mix spirit and matter and got caught up in the mess it's in today.
              >
              > reality is abstract and trying to make sense of the abstract in the
              > physical is nearly impossible unless you can understand the
              conundrum
              > created by the arguments.
              >
              > yes, the book of revelations was written for the orthodox church,
              but it
              > was used to scare the people who were falling away from the church
              at
              > the time, to kind of bring them back into the fold (baaa) and
              continue
              > to perpetuate the message of jesus and solidify the church
              bureaucracy
              > and control over the people.
              >
              > cheers,
              > dwain
              >
              > --
              > Dwain Alford
              > http://www.alford-design-group.com
              > "The artist may use any form which his expression demands;
              > for his inner impulse must find suitable expression." Kandinsky
              >
            • Timothy Fuhrmeister
              Miguel: Thank you for the link. Finding PDK s Exegesis on the web can be difficult. Wouldn t it be great if someday the whole thing was published! Anyhow,I am
              Message 6 of 10 , Aug 25 7:26 AM
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                Miguel:
                Thank you for the link. Finding PDK's Exegesis on the web can be
                difficult. Wouldn't it be great if someday the whole thing was published!
                Anyhow,I am currently going over some of the creation myths, to see
                how they compare to VALIS. I don't know why I diddin't see this before
                but in Genisis 1:2 "God was moving over the waters" and I suppose on
                the waters he saw his reflection. I think he is talking about his
                reflection in Genisis 1:26 "Let us make man in OUR image."
                If God(by this I mean the Gnostic father of light or VALIS)is
                supremly complete,perfect,excellent and indescribable,why would he
                need to create anything? PDK's view that VALIS did so to gain a
                objective standpoint to comprehend it's own self is the only thing
                that is making sense to me. So far I have a way to understand the
                nature of God and the reason he created all this. But what about the
                creation itself? Is everything as it should be in regards to
                good/evil? (for example the creation needs evil as a way to understand
                good)or did something go terribly wrong? (The Demiurge/Archons etc).
                So far I've only gone through the Secret book of John. I find it
                interesting the descriptions of light in it(lasers/holograms?)
                Again,thank you for the link.
                Tim-

                --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Miguel Conner <miguelconner@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Hi Tim,
                >
                > I would say that Valis is a bona fide Gnostic gospel, IMO. When I
                read it a year after studying Gnosticism a light bulb flashed in my
                head and heart. Everything made sense.
                >
                > But Valis is the tip of the iceberg in Dick's discovery of his own
                gnosis. Much of his insights were written in his Exegisis and other
                works. Here is a Gnostic forum that has all of PKD's Gnostic works
                beyond Valis:
                >
                > http://www.palmtreegarden.org/forum/viewforum.php?id=33
                >
                > Miguel
                >
                >
                > Timothy Fuhrmeister <timfuhrmeister@...> wrote:
                Hi All:
                >
                > I have some thoughts I would like to bounce off of everyone about
                > Philip K. Dick and Gnosticism. I'm reading VALIS again after several
                > years and it's blowing my mind all over again! As some of you know
                > VALIS(Vast,Active,Living,Intellegence,System) is PDK's incarnation of
                > the Logos or the true God. It is bassicly the universe as Einstein and
                > Heraclitus thought of it-Hylozoism.
                > Now Valis created our reality as a sort of mirror image so that it
                > could get a objective stand point to comprehend it's own self. The
                > universe is motivated to seek a instrument for self awareness.
                > PDK calls the Demi-urge ZEBRA becuase it mimics reality and we are
                > not aware of it, this reality is in fact a hologram. Today I ran
                > across the Holographic principle. Some scientists when looking at the
                > nature of black holes and the entropy in them came up with the theory
                > that volume is somehow illusory, the third dimension does not exsist,
                > and that the universe is actually a hologram.
                > Maybe PDK was onto something?
                > This also fits in with Hyper Reality theory.
                > This could explain the actions of God in the OT and notably in the
                > book of Job where God seems almost unaware of the evil he is doing.
                > According to PDK the goal of all this is for VALIS to discover his
                > true nature.Once that happens who knows? Probably some book of
                > Revalations type stuff.
                > I am still trying to wrap my head around all this, any help?
                > Tim-
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Visit http://thegodabovegod.com/ and become part of the new
                Renaissance of Gnosticism and Truthseeking.
                >
                > ---------------------------------
                > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who
                knows.
                > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
                >
              • lady_caritas
                ... published! ... Hi, Tim. When it comes to our world creation, we usually see a demiurge (artisan, craftsman) shaping or fashioning such in Gnostic
                Message 7 of 10 , Aug 25 9:15 AM
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                  --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy Fuhrmeister" <timfuhrmeister@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Miguel:
                  > Thank you for the link. Finding PDK's Exegesis on the web can be
                  > difficult. Wouldn't it be great if someday the whole thing was published!
                  > Anyhow,I am currently going over some of the creation myths, to see
                  > how they compare to VALIS. I don't know why I diddin't see this before
                  > but in Genisis 1:2 "God was moving over the waters" and I suppose on
                  > the waters he saw his reflection. I think he is talking about his
                  > reflection in Genisis 1:26 "Let us make man in OUR image."
                  > If God(by this I mean the Gnostic father of light or VALIS)is
                  > supremly complete,perfect,excellent and indescribable,why would he
                  > need to create anything? PDK's view that VALIS did so to gain a
                  > objective standpoint to comprehend it's own self is the only thing
                  > that is making sense to me. So far I have a way to understand the
                  > nature of God and the reason he created all this. But what about the
                  > creation itself? Is everything as it should be in regards to
                  > good/evil? (for example the creation needs evil as a way to understand
                  > good)or did something go terribly wrong? (The Demiurge/Archons etc).
                  > So far I've only gone through the Secret book of John. I find it
                  > interesting the descriptions of light in it(lasers/holograms?)
                  > Again,thank you for the link.
                  > Tim-

                  Hi, Tim. 

                   

                  When it comes to our world creation, we usually see a demiurge (artisan, craftsman) shaping or fashioning such in Gnostic literature.  In The Secret Book of John, which you read, this would be Ialtabaoth.

                   

                  As a side note, have you seen the following article, The Genesis Factor, by Stephan Hoeller?

                  http://www.gnosis.org/genesis.html

                   

                  It offers a brief opinion of some creation myths and links to writings you might want to peruse further.

                   

                  Cari

                   

                • Miguel Conner
                  Hi Timothy, My pleasure! Dick really has a huge body of work on Gnosticism that, until the last few years, has been overlooked by Gnostics and Esotericists.
                  Message 8 of 10 , Aug 25 10:52 AM
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                    Hi Timothy,

                    My pleasure!  Dick really has a huge body of work on Gnosticism that, until the last few years, has been overlooked by Gnostics and Esotericists.   His insights are amazing; and he writes how they came about through moments of gnosis and mystical visions.

                    Like I said, he helped me understand Gnosticism more than any scholar or writer this century (besides CG Jung).

                    Miguel

                    Timothy Fuhrmeister <timfuhrmeister@...> wrote:
                    Miguel:
                    Thank you for the link. Finding PDK's Exegesis on the web can be
                    difficult. Wouldn't it be great if someday the whole thing was published!
                    Anyhow,I am currently going over some of the creation myths, to see
                    how they compare to VALIS. I don't know why I diddin't see this before
                    but in Genisis 1:2 "God was moving over the waters" and I suppose on
                    the waters he saw his reflection. I think he is talking about his
                    reflection in Genisis 1:26 "Let us make man in OUR image."
                    If God(by this I mean the Gnostic father of light or VALIS)is
                    supremly complete,perfect, excellent and indescribable, why would he
                    need to create anything? PDK's view that VALIS did so to gain a
                    objective standpoint to comprehend it's own self is the only thing
                    that is making sense to me. So far I have a way to understand the
                    nature of God and the reason he created all this. But what about the
                    creation itself? Is everything as it should be in regards to
                    good/evil? (for example the creation needs evil as a way to understand
                    good)or did something go terribly wrong? (The Demiurge/Archons etc).
                    So far I've only gone through the Secret book of John. I find it
                    interesting the descriptions of light in it(lasers/holograms ?)
                    Again,thank you for the link.
                    Tim-

                    --- In gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com, Miguel Conner <miguelconner@ ...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Hi Tim,
                    >
                    > I would say that Valis is a bona fide Gnostic gospel, IMO. When I
                    read it a year after studying Gnosticism a light bulb flashed in my
                    head and heart. Everything made sense.
                    >
                    > But Valis is the tip of the iceberg in Dick's discovery of his own
                    gnosis. Much of his insights were written in his Exegisis and other
                    works. Here is a Gnostic forum that has all of PKD's Gnostic works
                    beyond Valis:
                    >
                    > http://www.palmtree garden.org/ forum/viewforum. php?id=33
                    >
                    > Miguel
                    >
                    >
                    > Timothy Fuhrmeister <timfuhrmeister@ ...> wrote:
                    Hi All:
                    >
                    > I have some thoughts I would like to bounce off of everyone about
                    > Philip K. Dick and Gnosticism. I'm reading VALIS again after several
                    > years and it's blowing my mind all over again! As some of you know
                    > VALIS(Vast,Active, Living,Intellege nce,System) is PDK's incarnation of
                    > the Logos or the true God. It is bassicly the universe as Einstein and
                    > Heraclitus thought of it-Hylozoism.
                    > Now Valis created our reality as a sort of mirror image so that it
                    > could get a objective stand point to comprehend it's own self. The
                    > universe is motivated to seek a instrument for self awareness.
                    > PDK calls the Demi-urge ZEBRA becuase it mimics reality and we are
                    > not aware of it, this reality is in fact a hologram. Today I ran
                    > across the Holographic principle. Some scientists when looking at the
                    > nature of black holes and the entropy in them came up with the theory
                    > that volume is somehow illusory, the third dimension does not exsist,
                    > and that the universe is actually a hologram.
                    > Maybe PDK was onto something?
                    > This also fits in with Hyper Reality theory.
                    > This could explain the actions of God in the OT and notably in the
                    > book of Job where God seems almost unaware of the evil he is doing.
                    > According to PDK the goal of all this is for VALIS to discover his
                    > true nature.Once that happens who knows? Probably some book of
                    > Revalations type stuff.
                    > I am still trying to wrap my head around all this, any help?
                    > Tim-
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Visit http://thegodaboveg od.com/ and become part of the new
                    Renaissance of Gnosticism and Truthseeking.
                    >
                    > ------------ --------- --------- ---
                    > Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who
                    knows.
                    > Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
                    >




                    Visit http://thegodabovegod.com/ and become part of the new Renaissance of Gnosticism and Truthseeking.


                    Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links.

                  • naohito
                    ... several ... of ... and ... the ... theory ... exsist, ... doing. ... Hi Tim I v also read VALIS before. As to the hologram theory,it coincides completely
                    Message 9 of 10 , Sep 10, 2007
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                      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Timothy Fuhrmeister"
                      <timfuhrmeister@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hi All:
                      >
                      > I have some thoughts I would like to bounce off of everyone about
                      > Philip K. Dick and Gnosticism. I'm reading VALIS again after
                      several
                      > years and it's blowing my mind all over again! As some of you know
                      > VALIS(Vast,Active,Living,Intellegence,System) is PDK's incarnation
                      of
                      > the Logos or the true God. It is bassicly the universe as Einstein
                      and
                      > Heraclitus thought of it-Hylozoism.
                      > Now Valis created our reality as a sort of mirror image so that it
                      > could get a objective stand point to comprehend it's own self. The
                      > universe is motivated to seek a instrument for self awareness.
                      > PDK calls the Demi-urge ZEBRA becuase it mimics reality and we are
                      > not aware of it, this reality is in fact a hologram. Today I ran
                      > across the Holographic principle. Some scientists when looking at
                      the
                      > nature of black holes and the entropy in them came up with the
                      theory
                      > that volume is somehow illusory, the third dimension does not
                      exsist,
                      > and that the universe is actually a hologram.
                      > Maybe PDK was onto something?
                      > This also fits in with Hyper Reality theory.
                      > This could explain the actions of God in the OT and notably in the
                      > book of Job where God seems almost unaware of the evil he is
                      doing.
                      > According to PDK the goal of all this is for VALIS to discover his
                      > true nature.Once that happens who knows? Probably some book of
                      > Revalations type stuff.
                      > I am still trying to wrap my head around all this, any help?
                      > Tim-
                      >
                      Hi Tim
                      I'v also read VALIS before.
                      As to the hologram theory,it coincides completely with Yoga or
                      Buddhisme thinkings.
                      They think that 3 category or class of existence.
                      That is cosal world, a world of light ,datas(this lights are
                      primondiale datas of everything)
                      The second is astral world ,a world of figures or forms(these forms
                      are complete reflexions of the datas ,lights of cosal world.
                      The third is this material world (this materials or everything of
                      this universe are also complete reflexions of astral world.
                      Besides, the king of this material world is a kind of satan like
                      Zebra from the viewpoint of Buddhism.
                      So we can say that this material world,this universe is a hologram
                      because the origin of it is datas or lights of cosal world.
                      We recognize this world like this thorough filter
                      of the causes(the datas ofcosal world) and condtions
                      In a yoga sutra ,the true being is Brahman and the other everything
                      are recognized as such by the defects of our human being's
                      recognization.
                      So everything of this marerial universe are provisional
                      like "modus"by Spinoza except the Brahman.

                      If manicheans and Gnostics used the word "demiurgos " to point out
                      the king of this material world,their recognization was more precise
                      than the other Chiristian. In addition,they recognized the
                      reincarnation of our souls.

                      As you know well ,some sects of Gnosis even thought that the god of
                      old testament was demiurgos.
                    • pmcvflag
                      Hey Naohito You state.... ... the king of this material world,their recognization was more precise than the other Chiristian. In addition,they recognized the
                      Message 10 of 10 , Sep 10, 2007
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                        Hey Naohito

                        You state....

                        >>>If manicheans and Gnostics used the word "demiurgos " to point out
                        the king of this material world,their recognization was more precise
                        than the other Chiristian. In addition,they recognized the
                        reincarnation of our souls.<<<

                        Do you have some examples in mind when you talk
                        about "reincarnation"? This has been a question here before, so I
                        thought it would be a good thing to revisit.

                        >>>As you know well ,some sects of Gnosis even thought that the god
                        of old testament was demiurgos.<<<

                        Actually, I am not aware of any historical "Gnostic" group that
                        disagrees with your point. However, you said "some". Did you have
                        any in mind that DON'T agree with your point?

                        PMCV
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