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Re: Mysticism a Regressional Experience?

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  • pmcvflag
    Cari and Thomas ... confused by a couple thoughts in the post above.
    Message 1 of 22 , Apr 7 8:27 PM
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      Cari and Thomas

      >>>Thank you for all your recent comments, Thomas. I was a little
      confused by a couple thoughts in the post above.<<<

      Cari, your observations and questions are exactly where I was leading
      as well. This is the reason I was asking Thomas where he drew the line
      between literal and allegorical. I think you hit the core of the issue
      better than I did.

      Thomas

      Your post answered many of my questions, but somehow I am still not
      sure of your stance on the issues that Cari is asking about. I don't
      want you to think you are getting the 3dr degree (so to speak), just
      that it is a genuine curiousity that I think is worth exploring.

      This is my ditto to Cari's question.

      PMCV
    • pmcvflag
      Darkchylde Lady Cari answered it pretty well. I guess I should respond also. ... did then, but this is not what is desired for discussion in this group. Or did
      Message 2 of 22 , Apr 7 9:33 PM
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        Darkchylde

        Lady Cari answered it pretty well. I guess I should respond also.

        >>The experience of gnosis is real, and happens to people NOW, as it
        did then, but this is not what is desired for discussion in this
        group. Or did I misunderstand?<<<

        You did, in fact, misunderstand (or perhaps I have not done a good
        job explaining... though it does seem others here understand). As
        Cari points out, this is explained in the letter that everyone gets
        when they join the forum.

        >>>Can we discuss the experience, that people ALIVE TODAY have, or
        does that not fit into the criteria of this group?<<<

        You are welcome to talk about personal experience as long as it is
        within the context of historical Gnosticism. Do you find that
        confusing? If so just ask and I will try to do a better job
        explaining it.

        We do accept there are many definitions of "Gnosis" (or "gnosis"),
        and they are valid in their own (emic) context even if they are not
        the context this forum uses. For those who are not happy sticking to
        traditional meanings of terms like "Gnosis" or "Sophia" etc., we
        would like to help them find the forums that they feel fits them
        best. Here are a few...

        The group Darkchylde suggests is run by Dick Richardson (aka Merlin,
        aka Doug, and maybe a number of other names). It seems to deal
        largely with semi-psychological notions of mysticism that it
        calls "Gnostic" (Valentinians would likely call this "Psychic"). The
        url is already posted in Darkchylde's post so I need not post it
        again.

        DharmaGnosis is a group run by Tom Ragland. The subject matter as I
        understand it is a sort of Jungian conjuction between Kabbalah,
        Eastern mysticism (especially Buddhism), and a notion of gnosis as a
        sort of general mystical realization. Though it does not seem to be
        the focus, the forum has not discouraged critical discussion when
        the subject has come up.

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DharmaGnosis/

        Gnostic_Cafe is run by Ms Jenny (aka Vee). The subject matter is a
        wider and looser grouping of modern spiritual mystical thinking in a
        very informal setting (as I guess the word "Cafe" in the title would
        suggest).

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gnostic_cafe/

        GnosticThought is run by GnosticKen (aka George). It deals with what
        Ken has termed "New Age" Gnostic thinking (which I think may be
        similar to what I would call "eclectic relativism", but I could be
        wrong and I don't intend to put words in Ken's mouth), and allows
        for some exploration of a number of systems from personal
        perspectives.

        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GnosticThought/

        You are encouraged to be in the groups that you find helpful for
        what you are trying to discover. Each group has stronger points and
        weaker points... including this one. I will not go so far as
        Darkchylde in accusing anyone of "missing the point", since I think
        that many different functions and foci can have important places
        within a larger human search for meaning.

        While we don't disregard other contexts, we do offer a more
        specifically "historical Gnostic" conversation FOCUS. We think this
        does have an important value. Take it or leave it... but don't be
        here and heckle it.

        PMCV
      • gnostic_ken
        ... I ... a ... be ... Hi PMCV, Tom is also a moderator of GnosticThought. ... a ... would ... Jenny is Jungian Gnostic. She has disappeared as she does from
        Message 3 of 22 , Apr 8 12:40 PM
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          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@...> wrote:
          >
          > DharmaGnosis is a group run by Tom Ragland. The subject matter as
          I
          > understand it is a sort of Jungian conjuction between Kabbalah,
          > Eastern mysticism (especially Buddhism), and a notion of gnosis as
          a
          > sort of general mystical realization. Though it does not seem to
          be
          > the focus, the forum has not discouraged critical discussion when
          > the subject has come up.
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DharmaGnosis/

          Hi PMCV,
          Tom is also a moderator of GnosticThought.

          >
          > Gnostic_Cafe is run by Ms Jenny (aka Vee). The subject matter is a
          > wider and looser grouping of modern spiritual mystical thinking in
          a
          > very informal setting (as I guess the word "Cafe" in the title
          would
          > suggest).
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gnostic_cafe/

          Jenny is Jungian Gnostic. She has disappeared as she does from time
          to time. The last time she disappeared she deleted her Jung cafe
          group. This time she left her cafe running on automatic.

          >
          > GnosticThought is run by GnosticKen (aka George). It deals with
          what
          > Ken has termed "New Age" Gnostic thinking (which I think may be
          > similar to what I would call "eclectic relativism", but I could be
          > wrong and I don't intend to put words in Ken's mouth), and allows
          > for some exploration of a number of systems from personal
          > perspectives.
          >
          > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GnosticThought/

          GnosticThought is only "New Age" in the same sense this group
          is "New Age." That is we are not traditional Christian
          as "Christian" has been defined for the past 1600 or so years. We
          are part of the new age of openness, diversity and tolerance. When I
          said "we are all of the new age" I was including you ;-)

          GnosticThought could be defined as having the exact opposite focus
          of this group. While this group is about historical gnosticism and
          modern personal experiences are not off topic so long as they are
          related to historical gnosticism in some way, GnosticThought is
          about modern personal Gnosis and related mystic experiences with
          some historical discussion hopefully relating to modern personal
          experiences.

          I don't remember ever saying GnosticThought is "New Age" because
          spelling it with capital letters usually refers to the loose
          movement personified by Shirley MacLaine. The only Gnostic movement
          I know of that would fit that definition of New Age would be Sylvia
          Browne's Gnostics. While Sylvia Browne Gnostics are welcome on
          GnosticThought they are generally not real comfortable with the
          range of viewpoints there. They generally want to talk about
          Sylvia's personal mythology and most of us relate more to historical
          Gnostic mythology than to Sylvia's mythology. Several, such as Tom
          and Steve, seem to relate most to Buddhism.

          Ken
        • pmcvflag
          Hey Ken ... Ah, yes... and after I posted I thought about at and realized I should have posted all of the mods of the groups. Isn t Brenda also a mod there?
          Message 4 of 22 , Apr 8 6:27 PM
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            Hey Ken

            >>>Tom is also a moderator of GnosticThought.<<<

            Ah, yes... and after I posted I thought about at and realized I
            should have posted all of the mods of the groups. Isn't Brenda also
            a mod there?

            >>>GnosticThought is only "New Age" in the same sense this group
            is "New Age." That is we are not traditional Christian
            as "Christian" has been defined for the past 1600 or so years. We
            are part of the new age of openness, diversity and tolerance. When I
            said "we are all of the new age" I was including you ;-)<<<

            That sounds like what I picked up as well. So my term "eclective
            relativism" seems not so far off the mark in intent.

            >>>GnosticThought could be defined as having the exact opposite focus
            of this group. While this group is about historical gnosticism and
            modern personal experiences are not off topic so long as they are
            related to historical gnosticism in some way, GnosticThought is
            about modern personal Gnosis and related mystic experiences with
            some historical discussion hopefully relating to modern personal
            experiences.<<<

            I think that is a good observation of the primary differences
            between the groups. I am glad to see that there are others here who
            understand how this forum is meant to function so that it is not
            simply that us mods have completely failed to communicate it.

            PMCV
          • gnostic_ken
            ... also ... I ... focus ... who ... Hi PMCV, Yes Brenda is also one of the GnosticThought moderators. You have always been quite clear about the focus of this
            Message 5 of 22 , Apr 9 8:43 AM
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              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@...> wrote:
              >
              > Hey Ken
              >
              > >>>Tom is also a moderator of GnosticThought.<<<
              >
              > Ah, yes... and after I posted I thought about at and realized I
              > should have posted all of the mods of the groups. Isn't Brenda
              also
              > a mod there?
              >
              > >>>GnosticThought is only "New Age" in the same sense this group
              > is "New Age." That is we are not traditional Christian
              > as "Christian" has been defined for the past 1600 or so years. We
              > are part of the new age of openness, diversity and tolerance. When
              I
              > said "we are all of the new age" I was including you ;-)<<<
              >
              > That sounds like what I picked up as well. So my term "eclective
              > relativism" seems not so far off the mark in intent.
              >
              > >>>GnosticThought could be defined as having the exact opposite
              focus
              > of this group. While this group is about historical gnosticism and
              > modern personal experiences are not off topic so long as they are
              > related to historical gnosticism in some way, GnosticThought is
              > about modern personal Gnosis and related mystic experiences with
              > some historical discussion hopefully relating to modern personal
              > experiences.<<<
              >
              > I think that is a good observation of the primary differences
              > between the groups. I am glad to see that there are others here
              who
              > understand how this forum is meant to function so that it is not
              > simply that us mods have completely failed to communicate it.
              >
              > PMCV

              Hi PMCV,
              Yes Brenda is also one of the GnosticThought moderators.

              You have always been quite clear about the focus of this group. I
              have no idea why so many people seem to misunderstand.

              I do know from experience that no matter how clear we try to be
              somebody will always misunderstand. Those who misunderstand seem to
              talk (write) the most ;-)

              So my point is it's certainly not your fault. You are and always
              have been as clear as you possibly can be.

              Ken
            • gnostic_ken
              ... Update: Jenny is now back. Ken
              Message 6 of 22 , Apr 26 2:37 PM
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                > Jenny is Jungian Gnostic. She has disappeared as she does from time
                > to time. The last time she disappeared she deleted her Jung cafe
                > group. This time she left her cafe running on automatic.

                Update: Jenny is now back.

                Ken
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