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Re: Rex Mundi film,

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  • lady_caritas
    ... Vinci ... of ... never ... al. ... their ... and ... never ... Hello, + Tau Mar Thoma. We ve had many discussions about how the ancient Gnostics might
    Message 1 of 20 , Mar 12, 2007
      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "tau_mar_thoma"
      <tau_mar_thoma@...> wrote:
      > >
      > Greetings, Mike and PMCV:
      >
      > AMEN! It's about time that people accept that, in fact, "The Da
      Vinci
      > Code" is a book of fictions, not inspired by the True God, but
      > comprised of a clever concoction of facts but mostly theories put
      > together to make money, promote movies, and to be the new hot topic
      of
      > bloggers galore. Furthermore, a lot of his "facts and theories" are
      > imperfectly understood and, consequently, render a very imperfect
      > "gnostic" revelation. Besides, in the final analysis, you will
      never
      > find Truth in any form of written literature, not even the NHL et
      al.
      > but solely through experiential Gnosis. The written words have
      their
      > place, to be sure, but they are at best vague adumbrations of how
      and
      > what Truth might appear as.
      >
      > It is one thing to say "The Word" but this mystical concept must
      never
      > be confused - not ever - with the written words of humans, be they
      > spiritual or secular or nearly brain-dead. Unless, at heart, we too
      > are become "bible-beating fundamentalists"? What divine Being ever
      > wrote anything down, other than the demiurge when it "inscribed" the
      > words of the Torah on two blocks of stone?
      >


      Hello, + Tau Mar Thoma. We've had many discussions about how the
      ancient Gnostics might have conceived "Gnosis." Of course, without
      their writings we could not learn what they thought or experienced,
      nor did they convey this information without a theoretical setting of
      some sort. We don't have absolute, firsthand knowledge of all their
      initiatory study and practices; however, their writings exhibit more
      than a passing familiarity with Platonist philosophy, for instance.

      You mention that written works have their place. If I may ask, what
      place is that? If Truth is found "only through experiential Gnosis,"
      what does the adjective "experiential" encompass? From your reading
      of the NHL you mention and other literature, what would the ancients
      take this to mean?

      Do you agree or disagree with the "Attributes of Gnosis" outlined in
      our group files section regarding the historical Gnostics?
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gnosticism2/files/

      Cari
    • Michael Leavitt
      ... Right on both points. _The Da Vinci Code_ is no better than _Holy Blood, Holy Grail._
      Message 2 of 20 , Mar 12, 2007
        > Greetings, Mike and PMCV:
        >
        > AMEN! It's about time that people accept that, in fact, "The Da Vinci
        > Code" is a book of fictions, not inspired by the True God, but
        > comprised of a clever concoction of facts but mostly theories put
        > together to make money, promote movies, and to be the new hot topic of
        > bloggers galore. Furthermore, a lot of his "facts and theories" are
        > imperfectly understood and, consequently, render a very imperfect
        > "gnostic" revelation. Besides, in the final analysis, you will never
        > find Truth in any form of written literature, not even the NHL et al.
        > but solely through experiential Gnosis. The written words have their
        > place, to be sure, but they are at best vague adumbrations of how and
        > what Truth might appear as.
        >
        Right on both points. _The Da Vinci Code_ is no better than _Holy
        Blood, Holy Grail._
      • Michael Leavitt
        ... To me Cari, the books are the lead into the experiential thing, no more no less, sort of like a road map. Now I ll shut up and let the two of you talk.
        Message 3 of 20 , Mar 12, 2007
          lady_caritas wrote:
          > You mention that written works have their place. If I may ask, what
          > place is that? If Truth is found "only through experiential Gnosis,"
          > what does the adjective "experiential" encompass? From your reading
          > of the NHL you mention and other literature, what would the ancients
          > take this to mean?
          >
          >
          >
          To me Cari, the books are the lead into the experiential thing, no more
          no less, sort of like a road map. Now I'll shut up and let the two of
          you talk.
        • pmcvflag
          Hey Tau Mar Thoma ... Vinci Code is a book of fictions, not inspired by the True God, but comprised of a clever concoction of facts
          Message 4 of 20 , Mar 12, 2007
            Hey Tau Mar Thoma

            >>>AMEN! It's about time that people accept that, in fact, "The Da
            Vinci Code" is a book of fictions, not inspired by the True God, but
            comprised of a clever concoction of facts<<<

            I go even further than that, in that I question whether these
            supposed "facts" really are facts at all.

            Anyway, I will be interested to hear your take on Lady Cari's
            questions.

            PMCV
          • lady_caritas
            ... what ... Gnosis, ... reading ... ancients ... more ... of ... Hi, Mike. Certainly there is no need to shut up. Silence can be deafening at times. ;-)
            Message 5 of 20 , Mar 26, 2007
              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Michael Leavitt <ac998@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              >
              > lady_caritas wrote:
              > > You mention that written works have their place. If I may ask,
              what
              > > place is that? If Truth is found "only through experiential
              Gnosis,"
              > > what does the adjective "experiential" encompass? From your
              reading
              > > of the NHL you mention and other literature, what would the
              ancients
              > > take this to mean?
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > To me Cari, the books are the lead into the experiential thing, no
              more
              > no less, sort of like a road map. Now I'll shut up and let the two
              of
              > you talk.
              >


              Hi, Mike. Certainly there is no need to "shut up." Silence can be
              deafening at times. ;-)

              So, if "books are the lead into the experiential thing," as you say,
              could one also place other things like ritual as part of the
              direction, part of the "road map"? Actually, does one even need
              books or rituals in order to generate whatever this "experiential
              thing" is you mention? Or are you referring to a
              unique "experiential thing"? I guess what I'm thinking is that
              specific guides might influence direction or quality or framework of
              a certain "experiential thing." In fact, all these could be
              considered part of the whole experiential process, even as various
              facets could be readdressed during an ongoing progression?

              And even though many different written words and everyday life
              rituals could influence a mystical episode or a progression of
              spiritual occurrences and inner exploration in someone's life, it
              seems that there are specific paths that rely on particular
              precedents, taken together as an interrelated whole, in order to
              accomplish desired results within a distinctive context. Gaining
              inner knowledge or spiritual clarity or whatever is sought after is
              not always a free-for-all, taking various elements out of context,
              when it comes to methodology.

              A question might remain whether all the guides make any difference in
              the uniqueness or authenticity of a mystical experience. And that is
              outside the scope of our group. What seems apparent to me, however,
              is that how one interprets the experience, how much emphasis one
              places on a mystical episode in relation to other aspects of the
              process, and how one proceeds in this existent life are factors that
              can be observed, apart from judging as to efficacy. And the Gnostic
              writings do give us some information on that score.

              Anyway, I'll stop here for now to allow for others' coments.

              Cari
            • Michael Leavitt
              ... I agree, and ritual has its part. Being ordained a Deacon and then a Priest were numinous experiences, but geared to service, and initiation in support
              Message 6 of 20 , Mar 26, 2007
                lady_caritas wrote:
                > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Michael Leavitt <ac998@...> wrote:
                >
                >>
                >> lady_caritas wrote:
                >>
                >>> You mention that written works have their place. If I may ask,
                >>>
                > what
                >
                >>> place is that? If Truth is found "only through experiential
                >>>
                > Gnosis,"
                >
                >>> what does the adjective "experiential" encompass? From your
                >>>
                > reading
                >
                >>> of the NHL you mention and other literature, what would the
                >>>
                > ancients
                >
                >>> take this to mean?
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >>>
                >> To me Cari, the books are the lead into the experiential thing, no
                >>
                > more
                >
                >> no less, sort of like a road map. Now I'll shut up and let the two
                >>
                > of
                >
                >> you talk.
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                > Hi, Mike. Certainly there is no need to "shut up." Silence can be
                > deafening at times. ;-)
                >
                > So, if "books are the lead into the experiential thing," as you say,
                > could one also place other things like ritual as part of the
                > direction, part of the "road map"? Actually, does one even need
                > books or rituals in order to generate whatever this "experiential
                > thing" is you mention? Or are you referring to a
                > unique "experiential thing"? I guess what I'm thinking is that
                > specific guides might influence direction or quality or framework of
                > a certain "experiential thing." In fact, all these could be
                > considered part of the whole experiential process, even as various
                > facets could be readdressed during an ongoing progression?
                >
                > And even though many different written words and everyday life
                > rituals could influence a mystical episode or a progression of
                > spiritual occurrences and inner exploration in someone's life, it
                > seems that there are specific paths that rely on particular
                > precedents, taken together as an interrelated whole, in order to
                > accomplish desired results within a distinctive context. Gaining
                > inner knowledge or spiritual clarity or whatever is sought after is
                > not always a free-for-all, taking various elements out of context,
                > when it comes to methodology.
                >
                > A question might remain whether all the guides make any difference in
                > the uniqueness or authenticity of a mystical experience. And that is
                > outside the scope of our group. What seems apparent to me, however,
                > is that how one interprets the experience, how much emphasis one
                > places on a mystical episode in relation to other aspects of the
                > process, and how one proceeds in this existent life are factors that
                > can be observed, apart from judging as to efficacy. And the Gnostic
                > writings do give us some information on that score.
                >
                > Anyway, I'll stop here for now to allow for others' coments.
                >
                > Cari
                >
                >
                I agree, and ritual has its part. Being ordained a Deacon and then a
                Priest were numinous experiences, but geared to service, and initiation
                in support thereof. The mass can do this to you as can Golden Dawn
                rituals, these are all I'm familiar with. All have had their effect.
                Reading Zostranos, I was there with him for a while, and that was not
                the only instance. When I read Gareth Knight on the paths, I worked
                them. My psyche got thrown all over the place. So reading has its place.
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