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Re: [Gnosticism2] Re: Question from New Member

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  • Nick Lawrance
    From DarkChylde Blessings and wingwhispers, Nick!! Do you know where I can get a copy of the Gospel of Eve? I heard of it, but haven t had the chance to read
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 16, 2007
      From DarkChylde
      Blessings and wingwhispers, Nick!!
      Do you know where I can get a copy of the Gospel of Eve? I heard of
      it, but haven't had the chance to read it yet.
      whirled and inner peas
      ...........................................
       
      Hi DarkChylde
      The Gospel of Eve is only a fragment that has been found as far as I am aware, there not very much to it at all so you wont get much from reading it plus you find the usual church father's propaganda associated with it.
       
      Nick
       

    • pmcvflag
      Hi Dorina, welcome to the group. You state... ... God/s, then why is He/She/It/They so aloof to our plight and does not help us by putting an end to all
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 19, 2007
        Hi Dorina, welcome to the group. You state...

        >>>The information I read seems to conflict, and if there is a
        God/s, then why is He/She/It/They so aloof to our plight and does
        not help us by putting an end to all this?<<<

        Perhaps you could give us a little insight as to exactly where you
        have come across the conflicting info. It could always be that the
        problem lies with the sources rather than confusion on your part.
        Allogenes and the Valentinian exposition (two historical Gnostic
        texts from the two main categories of Gnosticism) offer roughly
        similar cosmologies that look something like this;

        It starts with a sort of negation. This source is not connected to
        the world in any way, but is truly infininte. Not infinite like
        numbers, or the universe, but TRUE infinity. This source isn't
        a "God", or even exactly a being... it is beyond any label. At some
        point there is a sort of reflection of this infinity, and this
        shimmering infinity within the absolute infinity is the spiritual
        source. This secondary infinity is where all the spiritual beings
        (Aeons) emenate from. The Velentinian Exposition calls this source
        the "Second Father", or just "Father".

        What we then generally see happen in a Gnostic mythology is that
        eventually there is a final Aeon who creates or begets a sort
        of "God" who then creates the material world. This creator god is
        often describe in a negative way, and equated with the Biblical Old
        Testement God.

        From a philosophical perspective I think part of the function of
        this myth deals not only with the problem of the failings of the
        material world, but also is a device meant to help describe the
        problem of the concept of infinity vs the obvious fact of the finite
        in front of us. How can we concieve various forms of infinity, and
        if a god is absolute... how could it be smaller than the infinity
        that us humans can concieve? It must be bigger, or it could not be
        so absolute. The anthropomorphic gods that human minds CAN concieve
        could not possibly fit this bill, but then how can we find
        continuity between this infinity and the material universe? This is
        a question that still bothers philosophers and scientists to this
        day, though generally without the spiritual implications that
        Gnosticism raises.

        PMCV
      • pmcvflag
        Hey Nick You respond to Dorina... ... Gnostic God as some sort of aloof deity like the Old Testament God of Orthodoxy. The Gnostic concepts as posted below
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 19, 2007
          Hey Nick You respond to Dorina...

          >>>I am surprised that in studying Gnosticism you still see the
          Gnostic God as some sort of aloof deity like the Old Testament God
          of Orthodoxy. The Gnostic concepts as posted below from mainly Web
          sources make it quite clear that the Transcendent God in a sense
          suffers with us. God as something separate from ourselves is foreign
          to Gnosticism the spark of the divine is within all creatures.

          "They say that the same soul is scattered about in animals, beasts,
          fish, snakes, humans, trees, and products of nature. [Epiphanius,
          Panarion, 26.9.1.]" (Gospel of Eve)

          "But I say that God is the spiritual one. Man has taken shape from
          the substance of God. The divine soul shares partly in this one;
          furthermore, it shares partly in the flesh. "(Teachings of Silvanus)
          <<<

          I did want to point out that the Teachings of Silvanus is likely not
          a "Gnostic" text. In the intro to the text that we find in
          Robinson's Nag Hammadi Library, Peel and Zandee even go so far as to
          suggest part of it may have been meant as an attack on Gnostic
          thinking.

          Also, I believe that this description in Epiphanius was very likely
          talking about the world soul rather than "God" or the spiritual
          source.

          This isn't to necessarily disagree with your point, but simply to
          point out that I am not sure we can use these passages to imply
          anything about a Gnostic theology.

          Yeah, I know, I am being too picky again *lol*. The reason I mention
          it though is that if we don't have those two passages informing the
          theology, it opens up a number of other possible interpretations for
          the texts that are Gnostic. It makes the notion of pantheism a good
          deal less explicit in general Gnostic thinking, as well as opening
          the question of just how the spark could relate to the source in
          Gnostic texts.

          PMCV
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