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Re: Question from New Member

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  • bicyclesophie
    Hello Dorina, Yes, I understand that the subject of our own spirits deciding how best to take on life lessons can bring one into a serious, and often times
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 16, 2007
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      Hello Dorina,

      Yes, I understand that the subject of our own spirits deciding how
      best to take on life lessons can bring one into a serious, and often
      times heated debate on whether or not a person would choose a
      situation or circumstance. I mostly bow out of such debates because
      I don't think it is simple and I cannot possibly do more than
      speculate. Speculation is what I think gets mainstream churches into
      trouble when they try to answer questions that they shouldn't try to
      answer.

      I do wonder, though, about individuals who are learning impaired to a
      severe degree. They are so child-like, so dependant upon the
      kindness and compassion of others. Do we learn more from them? Are
      they teaching us how to nurture and stimulate the mind? Just a
      thought. More speculation. What do I know about it? I said I
      wouldn't speculate, my bad.

      Your son's compassionate caring of these people reveals his god-like
      traits. How wonderful to have awakened that in the self.

      Take care.
    • bicyclesophie
      Hello imdarkchylde, I enjoy reading your posts, you re very interesting and knowledgeable! Its exciting to read about what Gnosticism means to others and how
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 16, 2007
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        Hello imdarkchylde,

        I enjoy reading your posts, you're very interesting and knowledgeable!  Its exciting to read about what Gnosticism means to others and how they apply it in their lives. 

        You mentioned two things that we have in common.  That you are a Valentinian and that you have a siezure disorder.  Though I rarley have siezures anymore, I have had visions during some of them.  Some would say that I hallucinated, but the things that I saw were verifiable, and in one case I could not decipher until many years later, when I began my study of Gnosticism.  I also had an O.B.E. once which, after a certian point in the experience, the memory of it becomes foggy.  I felt absolutely energized the next morning.  Like you, I haven't attempted this since, as it was spontaneous and I assume, natural.  I don't want to force such things.

        As for Valentinian Gnosticism?  Fell in love with it right off.  It touched something deep inside of me that has driven me ever since.

        I look forward to having great chats with you!  Blessings!

         


         

      • imdarkchylde
        Brightest Blessings! Thank you! I don t feel very knowlegdable, I feel I am still learning, but luckly my passion is books and reading and learning so I am
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 16, 2007
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          Brightest Blessings!
          Thank you! I don't feel very knowlegdable, I feel I am still
          learning, but luckly my passion is books and reading and learning so
          I am rarely bored. Unless the TV is on... :)
          That is really interesting about your seizures and visions; I too was
          only able to find real answers to mine when I got into gnostism. I
          too look forward to discussions!
          whirled and inner peas
          DarkChylde

          Gnothi Seauton
          **Love thy enemies. Messes with their heads!**


          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "bicyclesophie" <imamuzd@...>
          wrote:
          >
          >
          > Hello imdarkchylde,
          >
          > I enjoy reading your posts, you're very interesting and
          knowledgeable!
          > Its exciting to read about what Gnosticism means to others and how
          they
          > apply it in their lives.
          >
          > You mentioned two things that we have in common. That you are a
          > Valentinian and that you have a siezure disorder. Though I rarley
          have
          > siezures anymore, I have had visions during some of them. Some
          would
          > say that I hallucinated, but the things that I saw were verifiable,
          and
          > in one case I could not decipher until many years later, when I
          began my
          > study of Gnosticism. I also had an O.B.E. once which, after a
          certian
          > point in the experience, the memory of it becomes foggy. I felt
          > absolutely energized the next morning. Like you, I haven't
          attempted
          > this since, as it was spontaneous and I assume, natural. I don't
          want
          > to force such things.
          >
          > As for Valentinian Gnosticism? Fell in love with it right off. It
          > touched something deep inside of me that has driven me ever since.
          >
          > I look forward to having great chats with you! Blessings!
          >
        • Nick Lawrance
          From DarkChylde Blessings and wingwhispers, Nick!! Do you know where I can get a copy of the Gospel of Eve? I heard of it, but haven t had the chance to read
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 16, 2007
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            From DarkChylde
            Blessings and wingwhispers, Nick!!
            Do you know where I can get a copy of the Gospel of Eve? I heard of
            it, but haven't had the chance to read it yet.
            whirled and inner peas
            ...........................................
             
            Hi DarkChylde
            The Gospel of Eve is only a fragment that has been found as far as I am aware, there not very much to it at all so you wont get much from reading it plus you find the usual church father's propaganda associated with it.
             
            Nick
             

          • pmcvflag
            Hi Dorina, welcome to the group. You state... ... God/s, then why is He/She/It/They so aloof to our plight and does not help us by putting an end to all
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 19, 2007
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              Hi Dorina, welcome to the group. You state...

              >>>The information I read seems to conflict, and if there is a
              God/s, then why is He/She/It/They so aloof to our plight and does
              not help us by putting an end to all this?<<<

              Perhaps you could give us a little insight as to exactly where you
              have come across the conflicting info. It could always be that the
              problem lies with the sources rather than confusion on your part.
              Allogenes and the Valentinian exposition (two historical Gnostic
              texts from the two main categories of Gnosticism) offer roughly
              similar cosmologies that look something like this;

              It starts with a sort of negation. This source is not connected to
              the world in any way, but is truly infininte. Not infinite like
              numbers, or the universe, but TRUE infinity. This source isn't
              a "God", or even exactly a being... it is beyond any label. At some
              point there is a sort of reflection of this infinity, and this
              shimmering infinity within the absolute infinity is the spiritual
              source. This secondary infinity is where all the spiritual beings
              (Aeons) emenate from. The Velentinian Exposition calls this source
              the "Second Father", or just "Father".

              What we then generally see happen in a Gnostic mythology is that
              eventually there is a final Aeon who creates or begets a sort
              of "God" who then creates the material world. This creator god is
              often describe in a negative way, and equated with the Biblical Old
              Testement God.

              From a philosophical perspective I think part of the function of
              this myth deals not only with the problem of the failings of the
              material world, but also is a device meant to help describe the
              problem of the concept of infinity vs the obvious fact of the finite
              in front of us. How can we concieve various forms of infinity, and
              if a god is absolute... how could it be smaller than the infinity
              that us humans can concieve? It must be bigger, or it could not be
              so absolute. The anthropomorphic gods that human minds CAN concieve
              could not possibly fit this bill, but then how can we find
              continuity between this infinity and the material universe? This is
              a question that still bothers philosophers and scientists to this
              day, though generally without the spiritual implications that
              Gnosticism raises.

              PMCV
            • pmcvflag
              Hey Nick You respond to Dorina... ... Gnostic God as some sort of aloof deity like the Old Testament God of Orthodoxy. The Gnostic concepts as posted below
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 19, 2007
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                Hey Nick You respond to Dorina...

                >>>I am surprised that in studying Gnosticism you still see the
                Gnostic God as some sort of aloof deity like the Old Testament God
                of Orthodoxy. The Gnostic concepts as posted below from mainly Web
                sources make it quite clear that the Transcendent God in a sense
                suffers with us. God as something separate from ourselves is foreign
                to Gnosticism the spark of the divine is within all creatures.

                "They say that the same soul is scattered about in animals, beasts,
                fish, snakes, humans, trees, and products of nature. [Epiphanius,
                Panarion, 26.9.1.]" (Gospel of Eve)

                "But I say that God is the spiritual one. Man has taken shape from
                the substance of God. The divine soul shares partly in this one;
                furthermore, it shares partly in the flesh. "(Teachings of Silvanus)
                <<<

                I did want to point out that the Teachings of Silvanus is likely not
                a "Gnostic" text. In the intro to the text that we find in
                Robinson's Nag Hammadi Library, Peel and Zandee even go so far as to
                suggest part of it may have been meant as an attack on Gnostic
                thinking.

                Also, I believe that this description in Epiphanius was very likely
                talking about the world soul rather than "God" or the spiritual
                source.

                This isn't to necessarily disagree with your point, but simply to
                point out that I am not sure we can use these passages to imply
                anything about a Gnostic theology.

                Yeah, I know, I am being too picky again *lol*. The reason I mention
                it though is that if we don't have those two passages informing the
                theology, it opens up a number of other possible interpretations for
                the texts that are Gnostic. It makes the notion of pantheism a good
                deal less explicit in general Gnostic thinking, as well as opening
                the question of just how the spark could relate to the source in
                Gnostic texts.

                PMCV
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