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Re: A Question for the gruop...

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  • pmcvflag
    Darkchylde ... about from a second party, or read it, I KNEW the connection I had to the ALL, the Unmainifest.
    Message 1 of 19 , Nov 14, 2006
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      Darkchylde

      >>>I just felt it to be a moment of 'gnosis' as I didn't just hear
      about from a second party, or read it, I KNEW the connection I had to
      the ALL, the Unmainifest.<<<

      Ah, I see what you mean. I had thought you were connecting the
      word "Gnosis" to the experience itself, but if I understand you now
      you mean to connect it to a sort of realization that contextualized
      the experience. Is that correct? It may sound like hair splitting, but
      the destinction could actually be very very important.

      >>>It wasn't due to visualization (although I think that to be a
      usefull and necessary tool in meditation) albeit it may have been
      triggered by my contemplations on the Epinoia. I came back with
      that 'water splashed in the face feeling' and it left me irrevocably
      changed. If I had never experienced it, I would probably still believe
      as I do now, but I wouldn't KNOW. It is one thing to read about it,
      contemplate it, talk about it, but it quite another to experience it.

      You know?<<<

      Yes, I do. You mentioned in a previous post how you may have taken the
      experience fery differently if you were, say, Catholic. I think that
      is a very good and important point... and very related to the subject
      of whether it is technically "Gnosis" or not. Many people who are more
      influenced by modern esoteric traditions equate the word with the
      experience itself. It is very often that we hear people say "look, I
      had this experience so now I have gnosis". In a modern sense of the
      word that is surely true, but I do find it unfortunate that people
      feel the need to foist this modern esoteric thinking back on
      traditional Gnostic thinking in such a way that causes them to misread
      the Gnostic texts.

      In the Gnostic texts this word is simply not a single cohesive
      experiencial instance. I do see how one could read Plato and think
      that is what he meant ("like a flash of light"), or read the Gnostic
      texts and believe they are talking about the mystical experience, but
      I think a closer reading shows this to be inaccurate. I think there is
      no question that the concept of Gnosis is used to describe more than
      one aspect of revelation, comprehension, and advancement on the
      initiatory path of the ancient Gnostics. The salvific effect
      of "Gnosis" is not generally attributed to a single event so far as I
      can remember from any of the texts (unless somebody else can think of
      an example).

      One could almost wonder if perhaps in modern English rather than
      claiming to have attained Gnosis, it could be more accurate to talk
      about various gnosises in a larger concept of Gnosis.... if that makes
      any sense. Just a thought.

      PMCV
    • imdarkchylde
      Blessings!! Sorry so long in responding. This post got buried in my inbox and I just now found it. Yes, that is exactly what I mean, and I don t think you are
      Message 2 of 19 , Nov 20, 2006
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        Blessings!!
        Sorry so long in responding. This post got buried in my inbox and I
        just now found it.
        Yes, that is exactly what I mean, and I don't think you are splitting
        hairs at all. I believe words are specific for us to communicate
        with, and that did need to be explained, you just did a better job of
        it than I.
        But it wasn't just a 'single event' although that moment had the more
        dramatic in effect on me. It was the entire process of learning
        the 'truth' on 'God' and the spiritual realm, then in a state of
        relaxed contemplation could be seen as meditation, which culmulated
        into an event wherein I was made aware of the ALL, and my connection
        to it.
        Kinda like in the Hymn of the Pearl, where the real task had been
        forgotten and the child and messenger sent to get the pearl had begun
        to serve the other king, then recieves a letter from 'home' which
        reminded the child of the task at hand and of their real identity.
        Reading the texts were like the letter, it reminded me of the truth,
        and for a momnet my perspective allowed me to experience the truth.
        Without having learned the truth, or being 'reminded of it' I
        wouldn't have really understood what I was seeing and the
        comprehension brought about by the event would have also been awry.
        That was the point I was trying to make, without success I think.LOL
        Hope you walk in Light and Love!!
        WHirled and inner peas
        DarkChylde


        Gnothi Seauton
        **Love thy enemies. Messes with their heads!**

        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@...> wrote:
        >
        > Darkchylde
        >
        > >>>I just felt it to be a moment of 'gnosis' as I didn't just hear
        > about from a second party, or read it, I KNEW the connection I had
        to
        > the ALL, the Unmainifest.<<<
        >
        > Ah, I see what you mean. I had thought you were connecting the
        > word "Gnosis" to the experience itself, but if I understand you now
        > you mean to connect it to a sort of realization that contextualized
        > the experience. Is that correct? It may sound like hair splitting,
        but
        > the destinction could actually be very very important.
        >
        > >>>It wasn't due to visualization (although I think that to be a
        > usefull and necessary tool in meditation) albeit it may have been
        > triggered by my contemplations on the Epinoia. I came back with
        > that 'water splashed in the face feeling' and it left me
        irrevocably
        > changed. If I had never experienced it, I would probably still
        believe
        > as I do now, but I wouldn't KNOW. It is one thing to read about it,
        > contemplate it, talk about it, but it quite another to experience
        it.
        >
        > You know?<<<
        >
        > Yes, I do. You mentioned in a previous post how you may have taken
        the
        > experience fery differently if you were, say, Catholic. I think
        that
        > is a very good and important point... and very related to the
        subject
        > of whether it is technically "Gnosis" or not. Many people who are
        more
        > influenced by modern esoteric traditions equate the word with the
        > experience itself. It is very often that we hear people say "look,
        I
        > had this experience so now I have gnosis". In a modern sense of the
        > word that is surely true, but I do find it unfortunate that people
        > feel the need to foist this modern esoteric thinking back on
        > traditional Gnostic thinking in such a way that causes them to
        misread
        > the Gnostic texts.
        >
        > In the Gnostic texts this word is simply not a single cohesive
        > experiencial instance. I do see how one could read Plato and think
        > that is what he meant ("like a flash of light"), or read the
        Gnostic
        > texts and believe they are talking about the mystical experience,
        but
        > I think a closer reading shows this to be inaccurate. I think there
        is
        > no question that the concept of Gnosis is used to describe more
        than
        > one aspect of revelation, comprehension, and advancement on the
        > initiatory path of the ancient Gnostics. The salvific effect
        > of "Gnosis" is not generally attributed to a single event so far as
        I
        > can remember from any of the texts (unless somebody else can think
        of
        > an example).
        >
        > One could almost wonder if perhaps in modern English rather than
        > claiming to have attained Gnosis, it could be more accurate to talk
        > about various gnosises in a larger concept of Gnosis.... if that
        makes
        > any sense. Just a thought.
        >
        > PMCV
        >
      • pmcvflag
        Hey Darkchylde ... more dramatic in effect on me. It was the entire process of learning the truth on God and the spiritual realm, then in a state of
        Message 3 of 19 , Nov 29, 2006
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          Hey Darkchylde

          >>>But it wasn't just a 'single event' although that moment had the
          more dramatic in effect on me. It was the entire process of learning
          the 'truth' on 'God' and the spiritual realm, then in a state of
          relaxed contemplation could be seen as meditation, which culmulated
          into an event wherein I was made aware of the ALL, and my connection
          to it.<<<

          AH, yes... a process then. I believe we understand each other on
          that one.

          >>>Kinda like in the Hymn of the Pearl, where the real task had been
          forgotten and the child and messenger sent to get the pearl had begun
          to serve the other king, then recieves a letter from 'home' which
          reminded the child of the task at hand and of their real identity.
          Reading the texts were like the letter, it reminded me of the truth,
          and for a momnet my perspective allowed me to experience the truth.
          Without having learned the truth, or being 'reminded of it' I
          wouldn't have really understood what I was seeing and the
          comprehension brought about by the event would have also been awry.
          That was the point I was trying to make, without success I think.LOL
          Hope you walk in Light and Love!!<<<

          It seems to me, then, that the next issue would be about exactly
          what kind of cosmology and soteriology that these events and studies
          imply to the person in question (in this case you or I).

          PMCV
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