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Re: Some more Essene Research FYI

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  • imdarkchylde
    Shalom, Cari!! Good points. Yes, the website was a more eclectic thing, and I had seen where another place where a Nag Hammadi text was listed as Essene, but
    Message 1 of 37 , Sep 1, 2006
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      Shalom, Cari!!
      Good points. Yes, the website was a more eclectic thing, and I had
      seen where another place where a Nag Hammadi text was listed as
      Essene, but for the life of me I can't find it now. I can't even
      remember if it was the Apc. of John or not, but I remember it caught
      my eye. This was the only reference I could find and copy.
      Still looking and learning!!
      Love and inner peas

      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, lady_caritas <no_reply@...> wrote:
      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "imdarkchylde" <imdarkchylde@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Wingwhispers, Cari!
      > > You are right, of course, and I still am learning to defend
      > > without giving like for like. Thank you for your patience and
      > > the patience of all that are following this.
      > > I think the conception is probably based on lumping the Nag
      > > and the Dead Sea Scrolls together, and that would be how that
      > > about. I was researching Essene material on my Christian Druid
      > > group, and I ran across it. It is an older posting, and has to
      > > with Native American Earth healing. I can post the entire
      > if
      > > you like, but here is a copy of the text that caught my eye.
      > >
      > > **....properties attract, like magnetism; "male" energies direct.
      > > When both are in balance, you have as Jesus said the Secret
      > of
      > > John (an Essene text): All is motion and rest. Or, yin and yang.
      > You
      > > want to be in the center of that, in balance...**
      > >
      > > From the Healing the Earth/Ourselves Newsletter of April 2006 and
      > > here is the http to the group http://www.blueskywaters.com
      > > you like me to post the entire newsletter?
      > > Anyhow, I don't remember that quote "All is motion and rest," in
      > the
      > > Apoc. of John, perhaps it is not a direct quote but a paraphrase.
      > > Could it be that there is another 'Secret' Gospel of John that
      > > could be refering to? (Other than the Apoc. of John, which I have
      > > seen commonly refered to as the Secret Book or Gospel of John.)
      > > Love and inner peas,
      > > DarkChylde
      > >
      > You know, Darkchylde, I generally hear this work in question
      > to as the Apocryphon of John or The Secret Book According to John
      > The Secret Revelation of John, but not The Secret Gospel of John.
      > That said, mention of "gospel" reminded me that The Gospel of
      > is sometimes referred to as The Secret Gospel of Thomas. I don't
      > want to make any presumptions here as to which work this person was
      > referring to, but it is noteworthy that in Logion 50 (GTh) Jesus
      > said, "... If they ask you, `What is the sign of your father within
      > you?' say to them, `It is movement and repose.'"
      > In any case, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions that either work is
      > necessarily Essene in origin. Most scholars I've read indicate the
      > Apocryphon of John to be of the Sethian Gnostic genre, as PMCV
      > mentioned.
      > Certainly, many modern groups, including those calling
      > themselves "Essene," might feel an affinity to various ancient
      > and include them in their practice.
      > As an example of a more New Age approach, the webpage you offered
      > appears to take an eclectic stance, incorporating the value of
      > various teachings, such as Native American, along with Buddhism,
      > Japanese Reiki. IOW, such a combination is anyone's prerogative,
      > also would not intend to lay claim to being a modern representation
      > of purely historical Native American origins, which would not have
      > included Reiki, for instance. In this light, in addition to our
      > confusion as to what text is really being referred to, it's also
      > clear to me whether the person quoted intended the word "Essene" to
      > signify a text written by ancient Essenes or one perhaps *used* by
      > modern "Essene" groups.
      > Cari
    • lady_caritas
      ... it ... to ... Baptist ... Heh. Neither is the treatment of his mother, Elizabeth. The author writes, John was begotten by means of a womb worn with
      Message 37 of 37 , Sep 9, 2006
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        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@...> wrote:
        > I'm glad to hear that Layton didn't include TT *lol*. BTW, I just
        > thought I would also add an interesting note for the group (maybe
        > will come up in the Essene conversation as well) that in addition
        > the sects you mention are attacked the treatment of John the
        > is not very sympathetic either.

        Heh. Neither is the treatment of his mother, Elizabeth. The author
        writes, "John was begotten by means of a womb worn with age."


        > Less obvious, but possibly still significant....
        > "It is through water and fire that the whole place is purified -
        > visible by the visible, the hidden by the hidden. There are some
        > things hidden through those visible. There is water in water, there
        > is fire in chrism."
        > (side note.... considering the subject matter and the mention of
        > of the rituals mentioned in other valentinian texts, along with
        > scribal errors elsewhere in Philip, one could reasonably wonder if
        > the second use of the word "water" in this passage may not have
        > originally been "baptism")

        That's possible. Sure. Yet,... talking about "things hidden
        through those visible" preceding "water in water" compels me to draw
        an immediate association of hidden water through visible water. I
        don't know if that is any less meaningful than spelling it out.

        Since "chrism" is mentioned, it even might be expected to think of
        the water in terms of baptism. Chrism and water are mentioned as
        *both* being necessary for baptism elsewhere in GPh:

        "We are reborn by the holy spirit. And we are born by the anointed
        (Christ) through two things. We are anointed by the spirit. When we
        were born we were joined. No one can see himself in the water or in
        a mirror without light. Nor, again, can you see by the light without
        water or a mirror. For this reason it is necessary to baptize with
        two things – light and water. And light mean chrism."

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