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Re: Some more Essene Research FYI

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  • lady_caritas
    ... if ... of ... You ... the ... You know, Darkchylde, I generally hear this work in question referred to as the Apocryphon of John or The Secret Book
    Message 1 of 37 , Sep 1 9:10 AM
      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "imdarkchylde" <imdarkchylde@...>
      > Wingwhispers, Cari!
      > You are right, of course, and I still am learning to defend myself
      > without giving like for like. Thank you for your patience and for
      > the patience of all that are following this.
      > I think the conception is probably based on lumping the Nag Hammadi
      > and the Dead Sea Scrolls together, and that would be how that came
      > about. I was researching Essene material on my Christian Druid
      > group, and I ran across it. It is an older posting, and has to do
      > with Native American Earth healing. I can post the entire posting
      > you like, but here is a copy of the text that caught my eye.
      > **....properties attract, like magnetism; "male" energies direct.
      > When both are in balance, you have as Jesus said the Secret Gospel
      > John (an Essene text): All is motion and rest. Or, yin and yang.
      > want to be in the center of that, in balance...**
      > From the Healing the Earth/Ourselves Newsletter of April 2006 and
      > here is the http to the group http://www.blueskywaters.com Would
      > you like me to post the entire newsletter?
      > Anyhow, I don't remember that quote "All is motion and rest," in
      > Apoc. of John, perhaps it is not a direct quote but a paraphrase.
      > Could it be that there is another 'Secret' Gospel of John that they
      > could be refering to? (Other than the Apoc. of John, which I have
      > seen commonly refered to as the Secret Book or Gospel of John.)
      > Love and inner peas,
      > DarkChylde

      You know, Darkchylde, I generally hear this work in question referred
      to as the Apocryphon of John or The Secret Book According to John or
      The Secret Revelation of John, but not The Secret Gospel of John.
      That said, mention of "gospel" reminded me that The Gospel of Thomas
      is sometimes referred to as The Secret Gospel of Thomas. I don't
      want to make any presumptions here as to which work this person was
      referring to, but it is noteworthy that in Logion 50 (GTh) Jesus
      said, "... If they ask you, `What is the sign of your father within
      you?' say to them, `It is movement and repose.'"

      In any case, I wouldn't jump to any conclusions that either work is
      necessarily Essene in origin. Most scholars I've read indicate the
      Apocryphon of John to be of the Sethian Gnostic genre, as PMCV

      Certainly, many modern groups, including those calling
      themselves "Essene," might feel an affinity to various ancient texts
      and include them in their practice.

      As an example of a more New Age approach, the webpage you offered
      appears to take an eclectic stance, incorporating the value of
      various teachings, such as Native American, along with Buddhism,
      Japanese Reiki. IOW, such a combination is anyone's prerogative, but
      also would not intend to lay claim to being a modern representation
      of purely historical Native American origins, which would not have
      included Reiki, for instance. In this light, in addition to our
      confusion as to what text is really being referred to, it's also not
      clear to me whether the person quoted intended the word "Essene" to
      signify a text written by ancient Essenes or one perhaps *used* by
      modern "Essene" groups.

    • lady_caritas
      ... it ... to ... Baptist ... Heh. Neither is the treatment of his mother, Elizabeth. The author writes, John was begotten by means of a womb worn with
      Message 37 of 37 , Sep 9 8:42 PM
        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@...> wrote:
        > I'm glad to hear that Layton didn't include TT *lol*. BTW, I just
        > thought I would also add an interesting note for the group (maybe
        > will come up in the Essene conversation as well) that in addition
        > the sects you mention are attacked the treatment of John the
        > is not very sympathetic either.

        Heh. Neither is the treatment of his mother, Elizabeth. The author
        writes, "John was begotten by means of a womb worn with age."


        > Less obvious, but possibly still significant....
        > "It is through water and fire that the whole place is purified -
        > visible by the visible, the hidden by the hidden. There are some
        > things hidden through those visible. There is water in water, there
        > is fire in chrism."
        > (side note.... considering the subject matter and the mention of
        > of the rituals mentioned in other valentinian texts, along with
        > scribal errors elsewhere in Philip, one could reasonably wonder if
        > the second use of the word "water" in this passage may not have
        > originally been "baptism")

        That's possible. Sure. Yet,... talking about "things hidden
        through those visible" preceding "water in water" compels me to draw
        an immediate association of hidden water through visible water. I
        don't know if that is any less meaningful than spelling it out.

        Since "chrism" is mentioned, it even might be expected to think of
        the water in terms of baptism. Chrism and water are mentioned as
        *both* being necessary for baptism elsewhere in GPh:

        "We are reborn by the holy spirit. And we are born by the anointed
        (Christ) through two things. We are anointed by the spirit. When we
        were born we were joined. No one can see himself in the water or in
        a mirror without light. Nor, again, can you see by the light without
        water or a mirror. For this reason it is necessary to baptize with
        two things – light and water. And light mean chrism."

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