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Re: Old vs new

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  • pmcvflag
    George ... question. I wasn t sure what your question meant. So I did the best I could. Maybe you could re-state your question, or pick a more specific
    Message 1 of 97 , Jul 9, 2006
      George

      >>>One, both you and I are not sure if I have responded to your
      question. I wasn't sure what your question meant. So I did
      the best I could. Maybe you could re-state your question, or
      pick a more specific focus?<<<

      Ah, so Jana isn't the only one I confused. Well, I don't know if my
      answer to her helped clarify any, so maybe I can make it a little
      more specific as you ask.

      First, one must understand that when we use the term "Gnosticism" in
      this forum we always mean it in the strictest historical usage. This
      is not meant to imply that anyone else's personal usage is invalid,
      but is meant to simply keep a certain level of clarity in
      communication and focus for the topic of this forum.

      Maybe it would be more clear if I picked out a specific subcategory
      of Gnosticism and ask the same questions. Would you say that the
      Sethian system is outdated? Or, would you say that it has as much
      validity and truth now as it ever did? If you would change
      something, what would it be?

      >>>As to your comments, I don't think I would say that the Gnostic
      system itself has not specific validity.

      I think Gnosticism has LOTS of specific valididty.... it just
      doesn't matter what set of symbols or rituals we select to
      express the truths. So "change or no change" does seem to
      accurately represent a portion of my recent post.<<<

      Ok, I think then maybe you are more in agreement with Tom about the
      notion of some core that we assume the symbols to adorn. It may then
      be better if I count the votes like this...

      0= The ancient Gnostic system would be hurt by attempts to
      modernize, causing it to loose its intended context or
      initiatory/communicative structure.

      2= Ancient Gnosticism needs no change (besides maybe words that can
      be better understood by the modern reader).

      2= The core meanings that we find in Gnosticism are the important
      point (a core assumption that we have not yet discussed), the system
      itself isn't important so the question of modernization is a given.

      0= Historical Gnosticism is only valid if modernized.

      This is if we place you in the third one? Does that seem accurate? I
      am actually a bit surpized that no one here voted in the last one,
      since I know there are a few people here who do feel this way. Maybe
      I will list some people, such as Ken (the Mod of the "Gnostic
      Thought" group) based on prior statements. Others here, like Steve
      and Nick have not chimed in either, but I think in some cases I may
      be able to tentatively list them based on recent statements (hoping
      they will communicate their points. I guess I should also vote *lol*.

      >>>In general, I would think both ancient AND modernized rituals
      would have an appeal in a SINGLE community. There would be
      the modernized rituals that would have a broad appeal to the
      beginner, and in a classic "Fraternal Masonry" approach, the
      more experienced members of the community could support the
      more arcane, difficult and historically interesting ancient
      symbols and rituals.<<<

      Well, sure, I am sure modern and ancient rituals could be appealing
      to many different groups in different ways, I am sure there are
      modern occultists who use ancient Hermetic symbols and Mithraic
      symbols.... but I was kind of specifically talking about Gnosticism
      in this case, not esotericists in general. So then do you mean to
      say that you could imagine a system in which there was a core of
      practitioners who held the ancient Gnostic methods, while teaching
      the new initiate using a modernized version for ease of
      understanding?


      PMCV
    • pmcvflag
      Michael ... G/gnostic?
      Message 97 of 97 , Aug 20, 2006
        Michael

        >>>How could one ever conceive of Garnerian Wicca being in the least
        G/gnostic?<<<

        Er... my point exactly.

        PMCV
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