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Re: Salvation

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  • eagleeyedwildwoman
    Hi , I Am back, had a computer virus, the Yahoo one. I m re-reading past posts and a few further back from were I started, as I m reading I just had to comment
    Message 1 of 83 , Jul 1, 2006
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      Hi , I Am back, had a computer virus, the Yahoo one.
      I'm re-reading past posts and a few further back from were I
      started, as I'm reading I just had to comment on this post.My
      training is in Buddhist and Hindu meditations for 25 + years and
      some practice in Native American Spirituality with a few spiritual
      practices. I was raised Catholic and went to church every Sunday
      while in my parents home. With this background and also having read
      Freke and Gandy's books and Elaine Pagels, Gnostic Gospel but mostly
      from experiencing personal Gnosis which I'm sorry to say is being
      separated from this discussion or seems to be discounted. Freke and
      Gandy explain the experience of Gnosis as more than can be written,
      it must be experienced, it is that knowledge or knowing beyond
      intellect that cannot contain the totality to Gnosis. It is not to
      be found in books and teachers therefore guide their pupils towards
      this experience and worked with them on a personal basis. You are
      all so intelligent but you miss the mark if you think you will "get
      it" from all your books and reading, get quiet and get in touch with
      the God with in and you may start to have Gnosis. Whatever the
      culture it's all the same God or Great Spirit, whatever; the
      experience of Gnosis is the same, look at the mystics and refer to
      Barbara's experience and you will see what it is to have Gnosis.

      Aleada





      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Nick Lawrance"
      <nicholson2000ret@...> wrote:
      >
      > From: William
      > M Helm writes: salvation is obtained through "knowing"
      > Nick writes: salvation is obtained through "Gnosis"
      >
      > I take the terms 'knowing' and 'gnosis' to be essentially
      interchangeable.
      > What does it mean, in simpler terms, to obtain salvation
      through 'knowing' or 'gnosis'?
      > How does one 'go about' obtaining this 'knowing' or 'gnosis' that
      will lead to salvation?
      > ............................
      >
      > What does it mean, in simpler terms, to obtain salvation
      through 'knowing' or 'gnosis'?
      > ......................................
      >
      > According to the Gnostic teacher Theodotus, writing in Asia Minor
      (c. 140-160), the Gnostic is one has come to understand who we were,
      and what we have become; where we were... whither we are hastening;
      from what we are being released; what birth is, and what is rebirth.
      >
      > According to Gnosticism one can not escape the cycles of birth and
      death until we release our spiritual element that has become trapped
      within this cycle. It was ignorance that lead to the 'Fall' thus
      only "Knowledge in the Gnostic sense of the word" that can redeem us.
      >
      > "Since the perfection of the All is in the Father, it is necessary
      for the All to ascend to him. Therefore, if one has knowledge, he
      gets what belongs to him and draws it to himself. For he who is
      ignorant, is deficient, and it is a great deficiency, since he lacks
      that which will make him perfect. Since the perfection of the All is
      in the Father, it is necessary for the All to ascend to him and for
      each one to get the things which are his. " (Gospel of Truth)
      > .................................................
      >
      > How does one 'go about' obtaining this 'knowing' or 'gnosis' that
      will lead to salvation?
      > ...........................................
      >
      > In simple terms its a matter of 'Self knowledge' learning the
      relationship between yourself and God. In orthodox Christianity
      there is a great unbridgeable chasm between God and humanity but
      this is not so in Gnosticism.
      >
      > Bearing in mind that we are talking about the Gnostic conception
      of God. The Gnostic teacher, Monoimus, says:
      > Abandon the search for God and the creation and other matters of a
      similar sort. Look for him by taking yourself as the starting point.
      Learn who it is within you who makes everything his own and
      says, "My God, my mind, my thought, my soul, my body." Learn the
      sources of sorrow:, joy, love, hate . . . If you carefully
      investigate these matters you will find him in yourself.
      >
      > One needs to raise one's consciousness from the perceived to that
      which is unperceived; the Gospel of Thomas provides many spiritual
      exercises mostly in riddles in order for one to achieve this. It
      gives no clear cut answers for as the Gospel of Philip states "Truth
      did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images.
      The world will not receive truth in any other way. " The whole point
      of Thomas in my opinion lies in one's commitment to go out there and
      do the searching.
      >
      > 18) The disciples said to Jesus: Tell us how our end will be.
      Jesus said: Since you have discovered the beginning, why do you seek
      the end? For where the beginning is, there will the end be. Blessed
      is he who shall stand at the beginning (in the beginning), and he
      shall know the end, and shall not taste death.
      >
      > "But the rational soul who (also) wearied herself in seeking - she
      learned about God. She labored with inquiring, enduring distress in
      the body, wearing out her feet after the evangelists, learning about
      the Inscrutable One. She found her rising. She came to rest in him
      who is at rest. She reclined in the bride-chamber. She ate of the
      banquet for which she had hungered. She partook of the immortal
      food. She found what she had sought after. She received rest from
      her labors, while the light that shines forth upon her does not
      sink. To it belongs the glory and the power and the revelation for
      ever and ever. Amen." (Authoritative Teaching )
      >
      > Nick
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: William
      > To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 12:02 PM
      > Subject: Re: [Gnosticism2] Salvation
      >
      >
      > M Helm writes: salvation is obtained through "knowing"
      > Nick writes: salvation is obtained through "Gnosis"
      >
      > I take the terms 'knowing' and 'gnosis' to be essentially
      interchangeable.
      > What does it mean, in simpler terms, to obtain salvation
      through 'knowing' or 'gnosis'?
      > How does one 'go about' obtaining this 'knowing' or 'gnosis'
      that will lead to salvation?
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: M Helm
      > To: gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com
      > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2006 8:23 PM
      > Subject: Re: [Gnosticism2] Salvation
      >
      >
      > salvation through knowing
      >
      > --- William <willpenrhiw@...> wrote:
      >
      > > How does one obtain salvation through gnosticism?
      > >
      >
      >
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    • pmcvflag
      Aleada ... and Elaine Pagels, Gnostic Gospel but mostly from experiencing personal Gnosis which I m sorry to say is being separated from this discussion or
      Message 83 of 83 , Jul 1, 2006
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        Aleada

        >>>With this background and also having read Freke and Gandy's books
        and Elaine Pagels, Gnostic Gospel but mostly from experiencing
        personal Gnosis which I'm sorry to say is being separated from this
        discussion or seems to be discounted.<<<

        It isn't that your personal definition of the word "Gnosis" is
        discounted here, just that it isn't the definition of the
        word "Gnosis" that this forum uses.

        >>>Freke and Gandy explain the experience of Gnosis as more than can
        be written, it must be experienced, it is that knowledge or knowing
        beyond intellect that cannot contain the totality to Gnosis.<<<

        Freke and Gandy also claim that this definition of the word "Gnosis"
        is the one used by the traditional Gnostics... but I should point
        out that Freke and Gandy are mistaken. We are a bit more technical
        here.

        >>>You are all so intelligent but you miss the mark if you think you
        will "get it" from all your books and reading, get quiet and get in
        touch with the God with in and you may start to have Gnosis.<<<

        You misunderstand, Aleada, no body suggested that your idea
        of "Gnosis" is something that would be found in a book, but you need
        to also understand the historical meaning of the word "Gnosis" and
        not only the modern definition you get from people like Freke and
        Gandy.

        >>>>Whatever the culture it's all the same God or Great Spirit,
        whatever; the experience of Gnosis is the same, look at the mystics
        and refer to Barbara's experience and you will see what it is to
        have Gnosis.<<<

        No, that is what it means to have a mystical experience..... not
        Gnosis. They are not the same thing.

        Why do you feel that we must use your definition of the
        word "Gnosis" rather than the one this forum was designed to deal
        with? It isn't that I disagree with the importance of the experience
        you are talking about, it is just that we don't call that
        experience "Gnosis" here.

        PMCV
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