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Re: Salvation

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  • bkimbell98
    It seems, Aleada Aine, that our paths have sometimes taken us to the same places! I have also studied with one of Don Miquel s apprentices, and even tried to
    Message 1 of 83 , Jun 11, 2006
      It seems, Aleada Aine, that our paths have sometimes taken us to the
      same places! I have also studied with one of Don Miquel's
      apprentices, and even tried to start my own Four Agreements group
      (unsuccessfully). Some of his teachings are a bit fearful - which I
      try to avoid - as this is totally opposite from my personal
      experience with the divine. However, I believe his teachings are
      very valuable to begin the forgiveness path, which, in my opinion,
      is what Jesus taught, and what is essential to 'salvation'/gnosis.

      I have also used the Monroe Institute Hemi-Sync tapes (for 5 years)
      with limited success. When a friend of mine listened to my
      description of my ecstatic experience, he immediately recognized the
      similarity to 'going out of body' that Monroe describes in his
      books. The vibrations were similar, the descriptions of getting
      back into the body were nearly exact. I read 2 (maybe 3?) of his
      books, and although the vibration experience was very similar, my
      original ecstatic experience was quite different from that realized
      by using the hemi-sync tapes. I have only once reached that
      ecstatic state. However, I was able to reach some very profound
      states of meditation and a few brief out of body trips through Hemi-
      Sync. Fear always seemed to bring me back into the body in a short
      time!

      Through the first few years after my original spontaneous, prayer
      induced ecstatic state, I was often awakened in the night with
      vibrations that took over my entire body. These were un-nerving at
      first and occasionally resulted in brief out of body travels - but
      none quite as extentive as those described by Monroe in his books.
      Frankly, some of his descriptions were a bit frightening, and I
      decided that was not the path for me as my experience was not at all
      fearful - quite the opposite. I did not wish to traverse the
      negative underworld. So I turned to more uplifting methods.

      I dabbled in Reiki - am Reiki II trained - and will say that this
      was a positive experience as the energies with these methods were
      loving and healing. However, I do not wish to pursue 'magic' and
      came across many who were enamored with that aspect of the Reiki
      energy, so I have not pursued it. I will say, however, that I
      employed a Reiki Master (long distance) to help clear my oldest
      daughter of the negative energy that kept her in that dark tunnel.
      This woman was able (by phone contact and through meditations that
      she taught my daughter and me to use) to help my daughter understand
      why she was in the debilitated state and gave her clearing practices
      to assist her on the path to wellness. Did these work? All I can
      say is, these prayer / energy rituals helped us both have faith that
      she would find her way back to health. And she did - but, as I said
      before, it was gradual and took several years. Wellness is a state
      of mind that takes constant practice!

      During that time I also studied the Flower of Life Workshops -
      learned how to form the merkaba - this was also a very positive
      energy producing ritual. I found this a good way to clear negative
      thoughts and begin a meditation.

      I have also persued other Native American rituals and own a Tibetan
      brass bowl and a more modern crystal bowl to produce wonderful
      sounds that aid in relaxation and meditation.

      I grew up in the 60's and 70's, was part of the original hippie/pot
      generation, although I may be one of the few who never partook -
      HONESTLY!!! Almost everyone I knew did - including my husband of 32
      years. It may be that an ecstatic state can be reached through
      drugs, but from what I have read (Carlos Casteneda), many of these
      journey's can also be frightening and dangerous. Again, I had no
      such experience with my ecstatic state - it was pure
      love/peace/joy. No negativity at all, so I choose to not go on that
      path.

      Another helpful meditation/wellness path can be found in Peter
      Kelder's "Fountain of Youth" book. These are a series of Tibetan
      exercises for health and wellness that he swears keeps a person
      young - they are easy, yet invigorating and I would highly recommend
      them for any age.

      Eventually I gave up on reproducing that ecstatic state, believing
      that it was a one time experience meant to allow me to realize that
      God does exist, that the path is love/peace/forgiveness//compassion
      and that to pursue that state constantly would be counter-
      productive. I can see how drug addicts become addicts! I wanted so
      much to experience that agin, it could have consumed me and my
      life. Instead, I have concentrated on the message I learned from it.

      I guess I realized that being in body has its purpose, and to
      constantly seek out of body experiences would prevent me from
      spreading comfort to my family and others. Besides, I had a house
      to keep clean, 4 daughters to run around, volunteer work to do,
      etc.

      I continue to read and puzzle over the Jesus phenonmenon - I do
      believe he taught the path of love and forgiveness, but that message
      got diverted to suffering/sacrifice unfortunately.

      For those interested, I recommend some of the following authors /
      books that can help you understand the beginnings of early
      Christianity including the battle between orthodoxy and Gnosticism:

      Jesus Seminar Fellows: Crossan, Borg, Funk
      Bishop Spong's many books
      Bart Erhman's books : Lost Scriptures; Peter, Paul and Mary
      Magdalene; and especially Misquoting Jesus - a very careful
      discussion of textual criticism of the Bible. It is eye-opening and
      helps you understand how the Bible came to be what it is, what
      the 'original' texts (we actually have no such things) say as
      compared to the popular translations. He also discusses the Gnostic
      texts and decribes the battles between the leaders of the early
      church. Obviously, the orthodox group won out, which is why we have
      the Bible as it is today.

      In all my readings and experiences, there is one thing I can say I
      have discovered: Truth is a highly personal thing - even for the
      gnostic and orthodox writers - and people have been battling over
      that for millennia!

      Barbara

      Here's a quote from the latter:
      In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, eagleeyedwildwoman <no_reply@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > From my reading, and I do admit it is not extensive in the field
      of
      > Gnostic Literature, it is similar to other paths to enlightenment.
      I
      > am not seeing from reading Freke and Gandy that much of the
      secrets
      > were passed on to us, probably because they were transmitted in
      person
      > by teacher to pupil but also because they were experienced as
      direct
      > experience of ones own volition through spirit. I believe this was
      the
      > only way to transmit this Knowing, through experience. I approach
      the
      > problem of how it was done with the wealth of knowledge we have
      > available to us through many paths leading to the same conclusion,
      > Union with the Divine or Divine experience, the type of experience
      > Barbara so beautifully describes. I have years of Buddhist and
      Hindu
      > study and a year of Toltec with Don Miguel. I also work with
      Native
      > American spirituality and am getting into Hemi Sync with the
      Monroe
      > Institute though CD's, they stimulate or access that part of the
      brain
      > for this type of experience, it's awesome.
      > The idea of forming a small circle where one can raise energy for
      > healing and opening to spirit is a goal of mine, this was a common
      way
      > to transmit this Knowing according to above named authors. The
      > experience of ceremony is powerful especially in circle and I will
      > look into the Masonic rituals to learn more of the art of
      initiation.
      > Plato and is followers used play acting or drama to transport
      > themselves from nonordinary reality. Much of what must be
      accomplished
      > for the realization of Gnosis is the dropping of the trappings of
      ego,
      > much of the studies I recommend teach just how to do this. Then
      there
      > is the opening to receiving spirit. Rhythmic drumming, dance, or
      > awareness of the now in such acts as walking or other movements
      can
      > trigger an ecstatic state. Psychedelic drugs can also trigger such
      > states, such as peyote but should be used only with a trained
      shaman,
      > I would imagine. I am excited to explore which of the sacred texts
      may
      > enlighten me more as to just how the work was done from the
      Gnostic
      > point of view but from what I have read it surely must of been
      more
      > that just use of intellect.
      >
      > Yours in Spirit,
      > Aleada Aine
      >
      >
      > -- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "William" <willpenrhiw@> wrote:
      > >
      > > How does one obtain salvation through gnosticism?
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > -- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "William" <willpenrhiw@> wrote:
      > >
      > > How does one obtain salvation through gnosticism?
      > >
      >
    • pmcvflag
      Aleada ... and Elaine Pagels, Gnostic Gospel but mostly from experiencing personal Gnosis which I m sorry to say is being separated from this discussion or
      Message 83 of 83 , Jul 1, 2006
        Aleada

        >>>With this background and also having read Freke and Gandy's books
        and Elaine Pagels, Gnostic Gospel but mostly from experiencing
        personal Gnosis which I'm sorry to say is being separated from this
        discussion or seems to be discounted.<<<

        It isn't that your personal definition of the word "Gnosis" is
        discounted here, just that it isn't the definition of the
        word "Gnosis" that this forum uses.

        >>>Freke and Gandy explain the experience of Gnosis as more than can
        be written, it must be experienced, it is that knowledge or knowing
        beyond intellect that cannot contain the totality to Gnosis.<<<

        Freke and Gandy also claim that this definition of the word "Gnosis"
        is the one used by the traditional Gnostics... but I should point
        out that Freke and Gandy are mistaken. We are a bit more technical
        here.

        >>>You are all so intelligent but you miss the mark if you think you
        will "get it" from all your books and reading, get quiet and get in
        touch with the God with in and you may start to have Gnosis.<<<

        You misunderstand, Aleada, no body suggested that your idea
        of "Gnosis" is something that would be found in a book, but you need
        to also understand the historical meaning of the word "Gnosis" and
        not only the modern definition you get from people like Freke and
        Gandy.

        >>>>Whatever the culture it's all the same God or Great Spirit,
        whatever; the experience of Gnosis is the same, look at the mystics
        and refer to Barbara's experience and you will see what it is to
        have Gnosis.<<<

        No, that is what it means to have a mystical experience..... not
        Gnosis. They are not the same thing.

        Why do you feel that we must use your definition of the
        word "Gnosis" rather than the one this forum was designed to deal
        with? It isn't that I disagree with the importance of the experience
        you are talking about, it is just that we don't call that
        experience "Gnosis" here.

        PMCV
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