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Re: Salvation

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  • pmcvflag
    Hey Ms Aleada Aine, welcome to the group. ... Gnostic Literature, it is similar to other paths to enlightenment.
    Message 1 of 83 , Jun 10, 2006
      Hey Ms Aleada Aine, welcome to the group.

      >>From my reading, and I do admit it is not extensive in the field of
      Gnostic Literature, it is similar to other paths to enlightenment.<<<

      I wanted to point out something for anyone new to this subject,
      because it is something expressed by a number of people here in the
      last week. I know there are many ways that people use the
      word "Gnosis" these days, and many of those usages do not agree with
      each other. I have seen the word used to refer to ESP, and I have
      seen the word used to refer to racist dogma, but more common today
      the word has come to either mean the mystical experience (direct
      experience of "God"), or to "enlightenment", or lastly to some kind
      of personal truth.

      What I think it is important to understand is that none of these
      meanings are the meaning used by the traditional "Gnostics". In this
      forum, we do try to stick to this more ancient meaning of the
      word "Gnosis" for the sake of better communication.

      >>>I am not seeing from reading Freke and Gandy that much of the
      secrets were passed on to us, probably because they were transmitted
      in person by teacher to pupil but also because they were experienced
      as direct experience of ones own volition through spirit. I believe
      this was the only way to transmit this Knowing, through
      experience.<<<

      Plato defines the notion of Gnosis in the way the Gnostics used the
      word this way....

      "This knowledge is not something that can be put into words like
      other sciences; but after long-continued intercourse between teacher
      and pupil, in joint pursuit of the subject, suddenly, like light
      flashing forth when a fire is kindled, it is born in the soul and
      straightway nourishes itself."

      Both Plato and the historical Gnostics agreed that there was a
      strong and important experience aspect, but also a strong and very
      important intellectual aspect to Gnosis. In other words, it isn't
      one or the other, but must have both. It is a sort of epiphany
      bringing the ends of various knowledges and experiences together
      into a comprehensive cognitive state. This cognitive state includes
      very specific training in, and understanding of, the Gnostic cosmic
      structure and lingo, initiatory experience, and knowledge of the
      self and how one fits into the spiritual world.

      PMCV
    • pmcvflag
      Aleada ... and Elaine Pagels, Gnostic Gospel but mostly from experiencing personal Gnosis which I m sorry to say is being separated from this discussion or
      Message 83 of 83 , Jul 1, 2006
        Aleada

        >>>With this background and also having read Freke and Gandy's books
        and Elaine Pagels, Gnostic Gospel but mostly from experiencing
        personal Gnosis which I'm sorry to say is being separated from this
        discussion or seems to be discounted.<<<

        It isn't that your personal definition of the word "Gnosis" is
        discounted here, just that it isn't the definition of the
        word "Gnosis" that this forum uses.

        >>>Freke and Gandy explain the experience of Gnosis as more than can
        be written, it must be experienced, it is that knowledge or knowing
        beyond intellect that cannot contain the totality to Gnosis.<<<

        Freke and Gandy also claim that this definition of the word "Gnosis"
        is the one used by the traditional Gnostics... but I should point
        out that Freke and Gandy are mistaken. We are a bit more technical
        here.

        >>>You are all so intelligent but you miss the mark if you think you
        will "get it" from all your books and reading, get quiet and get in
        touch with the God with in and you may start to have Gnosis.<<<

        You misunderstand, Aleada, no body suggested that your idea
        of "Gnosis" is something that would be found in a book, but you need
        to also understand the historical meaning of the word "Gnosis" and
        not only the modern definition you get from people like Freke and
        Gandy.

        >>>>Whatever the culture it's all the same God or Great Spirit,
        whatever; the experience of Gnosis is the same, look at the mystics
        and refer to Barbara's experience and you will see what it is to
        have Gnosis.<<<

        No, that is what it means to have a mystical experience..... not
        Gnosis. They are not the same thing.

        Why do you feel that we must use your definition of the
        word "Gnosis" rather than the one this forum was designed to deal
        with? It isn't that I disagree with the importance of the experience
        you are talking about, it is just that we don't call that
        experience "Gnosis" here.

        PMCV
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