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Re: [Gnosticism2] Re: Lebanese Gnostics? Crispin's questions

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  • Jason Fletcher
    93. I find the bit about the demiurge facinating. It reminds me of a line from Liber XV, You know, Allister Crowley s Gnostic mass: O lion and o serpent that
    Message 1 of 44 , Apr 10, 2006
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      93.
       
      I find the bit about the demiurge facinating. It reminds me of a line from Liber XV, You know, Allister Crowley's Gnostic mass:
       
      "O lion and o serpent that destroy the destroyer, Be mighty among us!"
       
      That is my thought. Blessings-Rebecula

      lady_caritas <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <eugnostos2000@...> wrote:


      I have just finished the
      > newly-released Gospel of Judas. Although apparently Sethian-
      > influenced, it doesn't give the Sophia story.


      Oh, you know, Steve, upon first reading the Gospel of Judas, I didn't
      catch any Sophia reference.  But then I read the version with
      footnotes in the new book, _The Gospel of Judas_, edited by Rodolphe
      Kasser, Marvin Meyer, and Gregor Wurst.  And it appears that there
      might be an indirect allusion in discussion of Yaldabaoth.

      From text on page 37:
      "And look, from the cloud there appeared an [angel] whose face
      flashed with fire and whose appearance was defiled with blood.  His
      name was Nebro, [lll] which means `rebel'; [112] others call him
      Yaldabaoth. [113]"

      From the end of footnote 111:
      "... In Secret Book of John II:10, the demiurge Yaldabaoth has the
      appearance of a snake with the face of a lion, and his eyes are like
      flashing bolts of lightning.  In Holy Book of the Great Invisible
      Spirit III:56-57, Sophia of matter is bloody in appearance: 'A cloud
      [named] Sophia of matter appeared …. [She] surveyed the regions [of
      chaos], and her face looked like ... in her appearance ... blood.'"


      Cari









      Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates.

    • Michael Leavitt
      ... Doesn t seem necessary for the Quabalists and the breaking of the vessles. Might make it better though, if he were there. -- M. Leavitt
      Message 44 of 44 , Apr 30, 2006
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        Steve wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >> I'm curious what others think. Going back to Plato (as Steve did
        >> with his reference to Theaetetus), we see Plato's demiurge in
        >> Timaeus. How is a relational demiurge of some sort necessary
        >> functionally to a Gnostic system, and is this necessary to carry into
        >> a modern adaptation?
        >>
        >> Cari
        >>
        >>
        > Hi Cari. IMO, it's fascinating to see how, for example, the author of
        > The Apocryphon of John goes back and forth from the Timaeus to Genesis
        > and uses both as a point of departure for his/her own perspective. In
        > Timaeus Plato has the Demiurge using the Form of the Intelligible
        > Living Creature as a template for the Cosmos. As such, Plato seems to
        > be an early advocate for 'Intelligent Design'. For Plato, the world is
        > intelligible, hence modeled upon an intelligible pattern. In the
        > Apocryphon of John the Demiurge also seeks to work from an intelligible
        > pattern, but doesn't fully understand it. Consequently his handiwork is
        > flawed in ways that go beyond the inherent imperfection of a copy in
        > relation to the original. IMO, it might be possible to dispense with a
        > demiurgos in an Neo-Platonic emanationist system wherein the only
        > problem with materiality is the inherent inferiority of copy to
        > original and wherein the successive unfolding of emanations is simply
        > inevitable. However, it seems to me that the problem in the Apocryphon
        > of John goes deeper than this and is conceived as being an actual
        > rupture in the Great Chain of Being. As such, it would be difficult to
        > account for this apart from a Demiurgic figure, or at least a Sophia
        > figure driven by a desire which is contrary to the will of her Consort,
        > that is to say, unbalanced. What is your opinion on this? -Steve W.
        >
        Doesn't seem necessary for the Quabalists and the breaking of the
        vessles. Might make it better though, if he were there.

        --
        M. Leavitt
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