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Re: [Gnosticism2] Re: Lebanese Gnostics? Crispin's questions

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  • F8snafs@aol.com
    In a message dated 4/3/2006 1:14:00 PM Central Standard Time, eugnostos2000@yahoo.com writes: Hi Karl. I imagine that the best procedure in regards to the
    Message 1 of 44 , Apr 3, 2006
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      In a message dated 4/3/2006 1:14:00 PM Central Standard Time, eugnostos2000@... writes:
        Hi Karl. I imagine that the best procedure in regards to the
      acceptable degrees of variance in the mythological symbology would be
      to examine the avaliable texts in order to determine which motifs
      were retained in a more or less fixed form and which motifs show
      evidence of developmental modification over time. Of course, in order
      to do this we would need a variety of documents from related
      traditions that can be arranged in terms of estimated date of
      composition so as to get a general idea of the evolution of the
      mythological motifs. I'm not sure how practical that would be at this
      time. What methodology would you suggest?
        -Steve W.
      ================================================
      That sounds like a wise methodology to me, Steve. I would only
      add that considerations of community and culture might also be
      explored in addition to the times of the writings.
       
      Quite a lot of similar methodology has been employed to make
      similar determinations regarding changing formulations in the
      history of Christianity.
       
      Your servant,
       
      Widad
    • Michael Leavitt
      ... Doesn t seem necessary for the Quabalists and the breaking of the vessles. Might make it better though, if he were there. -- M. Leavitt
      Message 44 of 44 , Apr 30, 2006
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        Steve wrote:
        >
        >
        >
        >> I'm curious what others think. Going back to Plato (as Steve did
        >> with his reference to Theaetetus), we see Plato's demiurge in
        >> Timaeus. How is a relational demiurge of some sort necessary
        >> functionally to a Gnostic system, and is this necessary to carry into
        >> a modern adaptation?
        >>
        >> Cari
        >>
        >>
        > Hi Cari. IMO, it's fascinating to see how, for example, the author of
        > The Apocryphon of John goes back and forth from the Timaeus to Genesis
        > and uses both as a point of departure for his/her own perspective. In
        > Timaeus Plato has the Demiurge using the Form of the Intelligible
        > Living Creature as a template for the Cosmos. As such, Plato seems to
        > be an early advocate for 'Intelligent Design'. For Plato, the world is
        > intelligible, hence modeled upon an intelligible pattern. In the
        > Apocryphon of John the Demiurge also seeks to work from an intelligible
        > pattern, but doesn't fully understand it. Consequently his handiwork is
        > flawed in ways that go beyond the inherent imperfection of a copy in
        > relation to the original. IMO, it might be possible to dispense with a
        > demiurgos in an Neo-Platonic emanationist system wherein the only
        > problem with materiality is the inherent inferiority of copy to
        > original and wherein the successive unfolding of emanations is simply
        > inevitable. However, it seems to me that the problem in the Apocryphon
        > of John goes deeper than this and is conceived as being an actual
        > rupture in the Great Chain of Being. As such, it would be difficult to
        > account for this apart from a Demiurgic figure, or at least a Sophia
        > figure driven by a desire which is contrary to the will of her Consort,
        > that is to say, unbalanced. What is your opinion on this? -Steve W.
        >
        Doesn't seem necessary for the Quabalists and the breaking of the
        vessles. Might make it better though, if he were there.

        --
        M. Leavitt
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