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Re: Gnostics in Lebanon?

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  • thalprin
    What espeially interests me is the religious/spiritual relations passed between Tyre, Carthage, and the Etruscans. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre This
    Message 1 of 9 , Apr 1, 2006
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      What espeially interests me is the religious/spiritual relations
      passed between Tyre, Carthage, and the Etruscans.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre

      This article/rap on Wikipedia mentions the church (in Trye) that
      interests me - they say it was built shortly after Saint Stephan's
      death. I'd assume it'd been named/dedicated to Saint Stephan? Are
      you saying it doesn't actually exist?

      Thanks for the info. Please keep us informed. This is a very
      interesting and important topic I think.

      Best wishes,

      Terrie

      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, F8snafs@... wrote:
      >
      >
      > Carthage was founded by Phoenician colonists from Tyre nearly
      three
      > thousand years ago. There are currently no significant ties
      between
      > the two that I am aware of, political or metaphysical.
      >
      > Also, Terrie, I can assure you there is no Saint Stephan's church
      in
      > Tyre. When UNESCO arrived there in 1998 to assist in the city's
      > revitalization efforts and invited several archaeologists to
      assess and
      > map key historical sites they found many structures which had been
      > built by European Crusaders, but no major church structures were
      > identified.
      >
      > There is a Church of Saint Stephans which is about 25 or 30 miles
      > north of Beirut in Al Batrun. Perhaps that is the church you were
      > thinking of.
      >
      > Your servant,
      >
      > Widad
      >
      > In a message dated 3/31/2006 2:45:29 PM Central Standard Time,
      > thalprin@... writes:
      >
      > Hi,
      >
      > I'm also very interested in hearing more about Gnostics in Tyre
      (and
      > Carthage too? or any relations, with Carthage as well.) Also, in
      Tyre
      > (word means rock doesn't it?) I'm interested in facts/data
      relative
      > that you might know about Saint Stephan's church (I think it
      is.)
      >
      > Best wishes,
      >
      > Terrie
      >
    • lady_caritas
      ... Terrie, upon reading the link you offered, I found this: A church was founded here soon after the death of Saint Stephen, and Paul of Tarsus, on his
      Message 2 of 9 , Apr 1, 2006
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        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "thalprin" <thalprin@...> wrote:
        >
        > What espeially interests me is the religious/spiritual relations
        > passed between Tyre, Carthage, and the Etruscans.
        >
        > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre
        >
        > This article/rap on Wikipedia mentions the church (in Trye) that
        > interests me - they say it was built shortly after Saint Stephan's
        > death. I'd assume it'd been named/dedicated to Saint Stephan? Are
        > you saying it doesn't actually exist?
        >
        > Thanks for the info. Please keep us informed. This is a very
        > interesting and important topic I think.
        >
        > Best wishes,
        >
        > Terrie
        >


        Terrie, upon reading the link you offered, I found this:

        "A church was founded here soon after the death of Saint Stephen, and
        Paul of Tarsus, on his return from his third missionary journey,
        spent a week in conversation with the disciples there."

        Unless you were referring to something else I missed, it's not clear
        that the founding of this church included construction of a building,
        or at least one that survived to modern times. Disciples also might
        have met in each others' homes or elsewhere.

        In any case, the Gnostic movement described by Widad, "a discreet
        philosophical network of teachers and students," does not appear to
        have a very public building façade.

        Cari
      • F8snafs@aol.com
        I m sorry, Terrie, but I think it pretty unlikely any such structure could still exist and slip my notice. Perhaps some ruins have been unearthed recently
        Message 3 of 9 , Apr 1, 2006
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          I'm sorry, Terrie, but I think it pretty unlikely any such structure 
          could still exist and slip my notice. Perhaps some ruins have been
          unearthed recently that I'm unaware of. I'll write my father and see
          what he can find if you'd like. I'd be more than willing to do so.
           
          I'm not very knowledgable in regards to "the religious/spiritual
          relations passed between Tyre, Carthage, and the Etruscans." I
          saw a PBS program on the Phoenicians that stressed how little
          we know about this issue outside of Jewish, Greek and Roman
          histories which, the program suggested, were too biased to be
          considered all that reliable. Though they may have been right
          about one thing: that at some period the ancient Phoenicians
          practiced a form of ritual child sacrifice.
           
          Anyway, Christianity and Gnosticism was about two thousand
          years later in coming to the Levant.
           
          Your servant,
           
          Widad
           
          In a message dated 4/1/2006 12:58:13 PM Central Standard Time, thalprin@... writes:
          What espeially interests me is the religious/spiritual relations
          passed between Tyre, Carthage, and the Etruscans.

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre

          This article/rap on Wikipedia mentions the church (in Trye) that
          interests me - they say it was built shortly after Saint Stephan's
          death.  I'd assume it'd been named/dedicated to Saint Stephan?  Are
          you saying it doesn't actually exist?  

          Thanks for the info.  Please keep us informed.  This is a very
          interesting and important topic I think.

          Best wishes,

          Terrie

          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, F8snafs@... wrote:
          >

          > Carthage was founded by Phoenician colonists from Tyre nearly
          three
          > thousand years ago. There are currently no significant ties 
          between
          > the two that I am aware of, political or metaphysical.

          > Also, Terrie, I can assure you there is no Saint Stephan's church
          in
          > Tyre. When UNESCO arrived there in 1998 to assist in the city's
          > revitalization efforts and invited several archaeologists to
          assess  and
          > map key historical sites they found many structures which had  been
          > built by European Crusaders, but no major church structures  were
          > identified.

          > There is a Church of Saint Stephans which is about 25 or 30 miles
          > north of Beirut in Al Batrun. Perhaps that is the church you were
          > thinking of.

          > Your servant,

          > Widad

          > In a message dated 3/31/2006 2:45:29 PM Central Standard Time, 
          > thalprin@... writes:
          >
          > Hi,
          >
          > I'm also very interested in hearing more about Gnostics in  Tyre
          (and
          > Carthage too? or any relations, with Carthage as well.)   Also, in
          Tyre
          > (word means rock doesn't it?) I'm interested in facts/data 
          relative
          > that you might know about Saint Stephan's church (I think it 
          is.) 
          >
          > Best wishes,
          >
          > Terrie
          >
           
        • thalprin
          Yes, thanks very much, I d like that if it s no bother. ... structure ... see ... Yup, it s a problem, ie political/cultural propaganda. Should hear what
          Message 4 of 9 , Apr 1, 2006
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            Yes, thanks very much, I'd like that if it's no bother.

            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, F8snafs@... wrote:
            >
            >
            > I'm sorry, Terrie, but I think it pretty unlikely any such
            structure
            > could still exist and slip my notice. Perhaps some ruins have been
            > unearthed recently that I'm unaware of. I'll write my father and
            see
            > what he can find if you'd like. I'd be more than willing to do so.
            >
            > I'm not very knowledgable in regards to "the religious/spiritual
            > relations passed between Tyre, Carthage, and the Etruscans." I
            > saw a PBS program on the Phoenicians that stressed how little
            > we know about this issue outside of Jewish, Greek and Roman
            > histories which, the program suggested, were too biased to be
            > considered all that reliable.


            Yup, it's a problem, ie political/cultural propaganda. Should hear
            what folks had to say about the Etruscans.


            > Though they may have been right
            > about one thing: that at some period the ancient Phoenicians
            > practiced a form of ritual child sacrifice.
            >


            I think I saw that show too. Wikipedia has a nice little rap
            mentioning the continuing controversy as to whether or not Carthage
            was involved with ritual sacrafice:

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthage


            > Anyway, Christianity and Gnosticism was about two thousand
            > years later in coming to the Levant.
            >


            Yah that's what I hear too.

            Best wishes,

            Terrie


            > Your servant,
            >
            > Widad



            Best wishes,

            Terrie


            >
            > In a message dated 4/1/2006 12:58:13 PM Central Standard Time,
            > thalprin@... writes:
            >
            > What espeially interests me is the religious/spiritual relations
            > passed between Tyre, Carthage, and the Etruscans.
            >
            > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyre
            >
            > This article/rap on Wikipedia mentions the church (in Trye) that
            > interests me - they say it was built shortly after Saint
            Stephan's
            > death. I'd assume it'd been named/dedicated to Saint Stephan?
            Are
            > you saying it doesn't actually exist?
            >
            > Thanks for the info. Please keep us informed. This is a very
            > interesting and important topic I think.
            >
            > Best wishes,
            >
            > Terrie
            >
            > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, F8snafs@ wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > > Carthage was founded by Phoenician colonists from Tyre nearly
            > three
            > > thousand years ago. There are currently no significant ties
            > between
            > > the two that I am aware of, political or metaphysical.
            > >
            > > Also, Terrie, I can assure you there is no Saint Stephan's
            church
            > in
            > > Tyre. When UNESCO arrived there in 1998 to assist in the city's
            > > revitalization efforts and invited several archaeologists to
            > assess and
            > > map key historical sites they found many structures which had
            been
            > > built by European Crusaders, but no major church structures
            were
            > > identified.
            > >
            > > There is a Church of Saint Stephans which is about 25 or 30
            miles
            > > north of Beirut in Al Batrun. Perhaps that is the church you
            were
            > > thinking of.
            > >
            > > Your servant,
            > >
            > > Widad
            > >
            > > In a message dated 3/31/2006 2:45:29 PM Central Standard Time,
            > > thalprin@ writes:
            > >
            > > Hi,
            > >
            > > I'm also very interested in hearing more about Gnostics in
            Tyre
            > (and
            > > Carthage too? or any relations, with Carthage as well.) Also,
            in
            > Tyre
            > > (word means rock doesn't it?) I'm interested in facts/data
            > relative
            > > that you might know about Saint Stephan's church (I think it
            > is.)
            > >
            > > Best wishes,
            > >
            > > Terrie
            > >
            >
          • thalprin
            I wants that data from that moment. (Wah!) Surely they archived. ... and ... clear ... building, ... might ... I hear you, of course, ie several things are
            Message 5 of 9 , Apr 1, 2006
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              I wants that data from that moment. (Wah!) Surely they archived.


              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, lady_caritas <no_reply@...>
              wrote:
              > Terrie, upon reading the link you offered, I found this:
              >
              > "A church was founded here soon after the death of Saint Stephen,
              and
              > Paul of Tarsus, on his return from his third missionary journey,
              > spent a week in conversation with the disciples there."
              >
              > Unless you were referring to something else I missed, it's not
              clear
              > that the founding of this church included construction of a
              building,
              > or at least one that survived to modern times. Disciples also
              might
              > have met in each others' homes or elsewhere.


              I hear you, of course, ie several things are generally quite
              possible.


              >
              > In any case, the Gnostic movement described by Widad, "a discreet
              > philosophical network of teachers and students," does not appear
              to
              > have a very public building façade.
              >


              Well, privacy is always important. :)))


              > Cari
              >


              Hi,

              Terrie
            • thalprin
              ... been ... so. ... hehe, when city-state elders were asked to comment upon their brutal behavior towards their children they of course replied: The Pharoh
              Message 6 of 9 , Apr 1, 2006
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                > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, F8snafs@ wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > > I'm sorry, Terrie, but I think it pretty unlikely any such
                > structure
                > > could still exist and slip my notice. Perhaps some ruins have
                been
                > > unearthed recently that I'm unaware of. I'll write my father and
                > see
                > > what he can find if you'd like. I'd be more than willing to do
                so.
                > >
                > > I'm not very knowledgable in regards to "the religious/spiritual
                > > relations passed between Tyre, Carthage, and the Etruscans." I
                > > saw a PBS program on the Phoenicians that stressed how little
                > > we know about this issue outside of Jewish, Greek and Roman
                > > histories which, the program suggested, were too biased to be
                > > considered all that reliable.
                > > Though they may have been right
                > > about one thing: that at some period the ancient Phoenicians
                > > practiced a form of ritual child sacrifice.
                > >


                hehe, when city-state elders were asked to comment upon their brutal
                behavior towards their children they of course replied: "The Pharoh
                made us do it."



                > > Anyway, Christianity and Gnosticism was about two thousand
                > > years later in coming to the Levant.
                > >
                > > Your servant,
                > >
                > > Widad
                >
                >
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