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Horos, or Limit

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  • Steve
    I was wondering if anyone here has done a comparison study of the concept of Horos, or the Limit, in the Sophia myth and in Middle Platonism. Any comments
    Message 1 of 5 , Mar 28, 2006
      I was wondering if anyone here has done a comparison study of the
      concept of Horos, or the Limit, in the Sophia myth and in Middle
      Platonism. Any comments would be appreciated.
      Yours, Steve W.
    • pmcvflag
      Hey Steve, great subject. My internet connection is starting to act up (as is the electricity here). So let me get back to you. I hope others here will jump in
      Message 2 of 5 , Mar 28, 2006
        Hey Steve, great subject. My internet connection is starting to act up
        (as is the electricity here). So let me get back to you. I hope others
        here will jump in on this as well.

        PMCV

        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <eugnostos2000@...> wrote:
        >
        > I was wondering if anyone here has done a comparison study of the
        > concept of Horos, or the Limit, in the Sophia myth and in Middle
        > Platonism. Any comments would be appreciated.
        > Yours, Steve W.
        >
      • pmcvflag
        Hey Steve, I keep thinking I will come back to this topic in an in- depth way, and hoping that others would raise questions or give comments. Just so that the
        Message 3 of 5 , Mar 31, 2006
          Hey Steve, I keep thinking I will come back to this topic in an in-
          depth way, and hoping that others would raise questions or give
          comments. Just so that the topic doesn't get burried, let me give a
          few quick observations (since I don't have enough time to give the
          subject the real attention I think it deserves).

          The notion of a "Limit" as a sort of metephysical beginning of the
          spiritual realm we can attain, is something we do find outside of
          Gnosticism. For instance, Proclus talks about a primary Trinity which
          he defines as the "Limit" (though it is interesting that AFTER that is
          listed the "unLIMITed"). Aristotle, in metephysics, uses the
          term "horos" to mean something with definition, but seems (and
          Aristotle is not one of my specialties, so if I got this a little
          wrong feel free to correct me) to use the term in a sort of technical
          way. Plotinus specifically talks about life as a "limit", or defined
          representation of the "One".

          There are many sources that I know of that are vague, but mention the
          subject in a way that hints at a doctrin of this sort. For instance,
          Diogenes talks about the role of limit and unlimited in creation
          (which I think may be related to the Socratic diologue in Philebus,
          the more direct Platonic source for this lingo).

          Just a couple of other places where the concept, or the origin of the
          concept seems to be found. However, these are mostly before Middle
          Platonism, and deal either with Platonism, or neo-Platonism.

          PMCV

          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <eugnostos2000@...> wrote:
          >
          > I was wondering if anyone here has done a comparison study of the
          > concept of Horos, or the Limit, in the Sophia myth and in Middle
          > Platonism. Any comments would be appreciated.
          > Yours, Steve W.
          >
        • pmcvflag
          Er..... ... the concept seems to be found. However, these are mostly before Middle Platonism, and deal either with Platonism, or neo- Platonism.
          Message 4 of 5 , Mar 31, 2006
            Er.....

            >>>Just a couple of other places where the concept, or the origin of
            the concept seems to be found. However, these are mostly before
            Middle Platonism, and deal either with Platonism, or neo-
            Platonism.<<<

            ... obviously I didn't mean to say the neo-Platonist sources were
            before any middle-Platonism. I am sure you all knew what I meant
            there.

            PMCV

            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@...> wrote:
            >
            > Hey Steve, I keep thinking I will come back to this topic in an in-
            > depth way, and hoping that others would raise questions or give
            > comments. Just so that the topic doesn't get burried, let me give
            a
            > few quick observations (since I don't have enough time to give the
            > subject the real attention I think it deserves).
            >
            > The notion of a "Limit" as a sort of metephysical beginning of the
            > spiritual realm we can attain, is something we do find outside of
            > Gnosticism. For instance, Proclus talks about a primary Trinity
            which
            > he defines as the "Limit" (though it is interesting that AFTER
            that is
            > listed the "unLIMITed"). Aristotle, in metephysics, uses the
            > term "horos" to mean something with definition, but seems (and
            > Aristotle is not one of my specialties, so if I got this a little
            > wrong feel free to correct me) to use the term in a sort of
            technical
            > way. Plotinus specifically talks about life as a "limit", or
            defined
            > representation of the "One".
            >
            > There are many sources that I know of that are vague, but mention
            the
            > subject in a way that hints at a doctrin of this sort. For
            instance,
            > Diogenes talks about the role of limit and unlimited in creation
            > (which I think may be related to the Socratic diologue in
            Philebus,
            > the more direct Platonic source for this lingo).
            >
            > Just a couple of other places where the concept, or the origin of
            the
            > concept seems to be found. However, these are mostly before Middle
            > Platonism, and deal either with Platonism, or neo-Platonism.
            >
            > PMCV
            >
            > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <eugnostos2000@> wrote:
            > >
            > > I was wondering if anyone here has done a comparison study of
            the
            > > concept of Horos, or the Limit, in the Sophia myth and in Middle
            > > Platonism. Any comments would be appreciated.
            > > Yours, Steve W.
            > >
            >
          • Steve
            ... Thank you, Karl. I am familiar with how the term was used, in a not terribly precise way, by Platonists in their discussions of the Unlimited and the
            Message 5 of 5 , Apr 3, 2006
              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@...> wrote:
              >
              > Er.....
              >
              > >>>Just a couple of other places where the concept, or the origin of
              > the concept seems to be found. However, these are mostly before
              > Middle Platonism, and deal either with Platonism, or neo-
              > Platonism.<<<
              >
              > ... obviously I didn't mean to say the neo-Platonist sources were
              > before any middle-Platonism. I am sure you all knew what I meant
              > there.
              >
              > PMCV
              >
              Thank you, Karl. I am familiar with how the term was used, in a not
              terribly precise way, by Platonists in their discussions of the
              Unlimited and the Limited. I am interested in how the framers of the
              Sophia mythologies seemed to use the term to indicate the establishment
              of metaphysical boundaries, the function of which is to prevent
              particularity from merging back into undifferentiated unity. It is the
              vision of the Cross as Limit which saves Sophia from losing herself in
              her impossible attempt to comprehend the primal Depth. Here the Limit
              functions not only as a boundary of particularity but also as a
              recognition of the ultimate limit of knowledge, that being Only
              Begotten Mind. Thank you for the references.
              Yours, Steve W.
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