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  • enkki1212
    Hi, I ve just joined because I m looking to meet some people who might share some of my same beliefs with lets say truth rather than fiction . In the last
    Message 1 of 15 , Mar 1, 2006
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      Hi,

      I've just joined because I'm looking to meet some people who might
      share some of my same beliefs with lets say "truth" rather
      than "fiction". In the last few years I have come to read several
      books on 'gnostic' related topics. I am currently reading Holy Blood,
      Holy Grail (again) and I've also read books on similar topic by
      Laurence Gardner, Michael Baigent, Henry Lincoln, David Icke, Margaret
      Starbird, Lynn Pickett, Marvin W. Meyer, Elaine Pagels and even Dan
      Browns "Da Vinci Code". I also enjoy reading about conspiracy theory's
      specially with the U.S. government, Freemasons, Knights Templar or the
      Rennes-le-Chateau.

      I live in the Houston, TX area and think it would be awesome to find a
      local Gnostic community where maybe I could meet some people and talk
      in length over a few "pots" of coffee. If anyone else is in the area
      then let me know.

      Anyway!! I'm going to get going and keep reading. Please message me if
      you'd like to talk some.

      Thanks,
      Enkki
    • isis_powered
      Finally I m in a Gnostic discussion site. Over many years of consent spiritual work I ve gradually came to views and realizations that are almost exactly as
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 24, 2007
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        Finally I'm in a Gnostic discussion site. Over many years of consent
        spiritual work I've gradually came to views and realizations that are
        almost exactly as are found in Gnosticism and Manichaeism. But
        whenever I try to discuss them all people do is argue with me and say
        that isn't true. I have even referred to articles in the
        encyclopedia and books written on it that shows that this is the way
        Gnostics is and I'm not making all this up.

        But the most important thing of all is that I just don't believe
        these things, I actually walk the path. I quoted St. Paul
        saying, "5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." And
        so to me all those thoughts and justifications for tolerating sin I
        take as a bad thing, and the path that leads away from sin, as taught
        in Gnosticism and for the same reasons, is good. And therefore this
        saying of Paul proves that the path that leads away from sin is
        better then all the Christian beliefs and justifications that
        justifies sin. On this point all people want to do is argue with me
        and wont let me get beyond this point. I guess I was just in the
        wrong bulletin board, I wish I would of started here in the first
        place, the Gnostic corner of the Internet.

        So greetings all.
        Guy
      • j.j.salt
        I don t have to have faith. I have experience. ... isis_powered wrote: Finally I m in a Gnostic discussion site. Over many years of
        Message 3 of 15 , Dec 24, 2007
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          I don't have to have faith.  I have experience. 
          ---Joseph Campbell
           
           
          isis_powered <isis_powered@...> wrote:
          Finally I'm in a Gnostic discussion site. Over many years of consent
          spiritual work I've gradually came to views and realizations that are
          almost exactly as are found in Gnosticism and Manichaeism. But
          whenever I try to discuss them all people do is argue with me and say
          that isn't true. I have even referred to articles in the
          encyclopedia and books written on it that shows that this is the way
          Gnostics is and I'm not making all this up.

          But the most important thing of all is that I just don't believe
          these things, I actually walk the path. I quoted St. Paul
          saying, "5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." And
          so to me all those thoughts and justifications for tolerating sin I
          take as a bad thing, and the path that leads away from sin, as taught
          in Gnosticism and for the same reasons, is good. And therefore this
          saying of Paul proves that the path that leads away from sin is
          better then all the Christian beliefs and justifications that
          justifies sin. On this point all people want to do is argue with me
          and wont let me get beyond this point. I guess I was just in the
          wrong bulletin board, I wish I would of started here in the first
          place, the Gnostic corner of the Internet.

          So greetings all.
          Guy



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        • Mark
          Are faith and experience mutually exclusive? Mark ... of consent ... are ... say ... way ... taught
          Message 4 of 15 , Dec 25, 2007
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            Are faith and experience mutually exclusive?

            Mark

            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "j.j.salt" <jj_salt@...> wrote:
            >
            > I don't have to have faith. I have experience.
            > ---Joseph Campbell
            >
            >
            > isis_powered <isis_powered@...> wrote:
            > Finally I'm in a Gnostic discussion site. Over many years
            of consent
            > spiritual work I've gradually came to views and realizations that
            are
            > almost exactly as are found in Gnosticism and Manichaeism. But
            > whenever I try to discuss them all people do is argue with me and
            say
            > that isn't true. I have even referred to articles in the
            > encyclopedia and books written on it that shows that this is the
            way
            > Gnostics is and I'm not making all this up.
            >
            > But the most important thing of all is that I just don't believe
            > these things, I actually walk the path. I quoted St. Paul
            > saying, "5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." And
            > so to me all those thoughts and justifications for tolerating sin I
            > take as a bad thing, and the path that leads away from sin, as
            taught
            > in Gnosticism and for the same reasons, is good. And therefore this
            > saying of Paul proves that the path that leads away from sin is
            > better then all the Christian beliefs and justifications that
            > justifies sin. On this point all people want to do is argue with me
            > and wont let me get beyond this point. I guess I was just in the
            > wrong bulletin board, I wish I would of started here in the first
            > place, the Gnostic corner of the Internet.
            >
            > So greetings all.
            > Guy
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
            >
          • j.j.salt
            It depends upon one s definition of faith. In the conventional religious view, faith represents a belief that has no basis in experience or logic, and so the
            Message 5 of 15 , Dec 26, 2007
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              It depends upon one's definition of faith.  In the conventional religious view, faith represents a belief that has no basis in experience or logic, and so the conventionally religious person tends to inherit a stack of dogmas in which he or she places faith because that is what was taught.  This is sometimes, and aptly, referred to as "blind faith."  For those of us who have experience, our faith is tied to what we have come to know through experience, particularly our experience of the transcendental, but also based on how the experiences of others resonate with those things deep inside of us that are more profound than anything that can be taught.  That is, to me, what is meant by Gnosis in the broad sense. 

              Mark <larockpitts@...> wrote:
              Are faith and experience mutually exclusive?

              Mark

              --- In gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com, "j.j.salt" <jj_salt@... > wrote:
              >
              > I don't have to have faith. I have experience.
              > ---Joseph Campbell
              >
              >
              > isis_powered <isis_powered@ ...> wrote:
              > Finally I'm in a Gnostic discussion site. Over many years
              of consent
              > spiritual work I've gradually came to views and realizations that
              are
              > almost exactly as are found in Gnosticism and Manichaeism. But
              > whenever I try to discuss them all people do is argue with me and
              say
              > that isn't true. I have even referred to articles in the
              > encyclopedia and books written on it that shows that this is the
              way
              > Gnostics is and I'm not making all this up.
              >
              > But the most important thing of all is that I just don't believe
              > these things, I actually walk the path. I quoted St. Paul
              > saying, "5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." And
              > so to me all those thoughts and justifications for tolerating sin I
              > take as a bad thing, and the path that leads away from sin, as
              taught
              > in Gnosticism and for the same reasons, is good. And therefore this
              > saying of Paul proves that the path that leads away from sin is
              > better then all the Christian beliefs and justifications that
              > justifies sin. On this point all people want to do is argue with me
              > and wont let me get beyond this point. I guess I was just in the
              > wrong bulletin board, I wish I would of started here in the first
              > place, the Gnostic corner of the Internet.
              >
              > So greetings all.
              > Guy
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ------------ --------- --------- ---
              > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.
              >



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            • isis_powered
              ... What are your experiences? Guy
              Message 6 of 15 , Dec 26, 2007
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                --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "j.j.salt" <jj_salt@...> wrote:
                >
                > I don't have to have faith. I have experience.
                > ---Joseph Campbell

                What are your experiences?

                Guy
              • isis_powered
                ... religious view, faith represents a belief that has no basis in experience or logic, and so the conventionally religious person tends to inherit a stack of
                Message 7 of 15 , Dec 26, 2007
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                  --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "j.j.salt" <jj_salt@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > It depends upon one's definition of faith. In the conventional
                  religious view, faith represents a belief that has no basis in
                  experience or logic, and so the conventionally religious person tends
                  to inherit a stack of dogmas in which he or she places faith because
                  that is what was taught. This is sometimes, and aptly, referred to
                  as "blind faith." For those of us who have experience, our faith is
                  tied to what we have come to know through experience, particularly
                  our experience of the transcendental, but also based on how the
                  experiences of others resonate with those things deep inside of us
                  that are more profound than anything that can be taught. That is, to
                  me, what is meant by Gnosis in the broad sense.
                  >

                  To me Gnosis is knowledge, not faith. And so with the Gnosis comes
                  the conviction of spiritual knowledge that motivates us to actually
                  want to achieve spiritual liberation, not just talk about it. And
                  achieveing that liberation is the most interesting part. And so the
                  Gnosis gives motivation and direction, but actually walking the path
                  the Gnosis points at is where the real adventure begins.

                  Guy
                • j.j.salt
                  I agree that Gnosis is knowing. However, in the end we have to have some faith in our own experiences, that these are genuine experiences of the
                  Message 8 of 15 , Dec 27, 2007
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                    I agree that Gnosis is knowing.  However, in the end we have to have some faith in our own experiences, that these are genuine experiences of the transcendental and not delusions, hallucinations, wishful thinking, etc. etc. 
                     
                    With respect to the whole notion of faith, I like the Buddhist conception the best of any that I have run across.  Buddhism has a tradition that in any person, even one who is enlightened, there is a conflict between faith and doubt.  Their conception of doubt, as the opposite that defines their notion of faith, is not that they doubt the reality of their enlightenment, when they have come to kensho or satori, but rather that doubt that comes when we have the experience of divine perfection and love, and then see the world as the chaotic, sometimes evil place that we see when in "normal waking consciousness."  And that, to me, is one of the unique pieces to the puzzle that the Gnostics have provided us, which is a rational explanation for the contrast of the perfection we can come to know versus the fallen, broken nature of the reality we see. 

                    isis_powered <isis_powered@...> wrote:
                    --- In gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com, "j.j.salt" <jj_salt@... > wrote:
                    >
                    > It depends upon one's definition of faith. In the conventional
                    religious view, faith represents a belief that has no basis in
                    experience or logic, and so the conventionally religious person tends
                    to inherit a stack of dogmas in which he or she places faith because
                    that is what was taught. This is sometimes, and aptly, referred to
                    as "blind faith." For those of us who have experience, our faith is
                    tied to what we have come to know through experience, particularly
                    our experience of the transcendental, but also based on how the
                    experiences of others resonate with those things deep inside of us
                    that are more profound than anything that can be taught. That is, to
                    me, what is meant by Gnosis in the broad sense.
                    >

                    To me Gnosis is knowledge, not faith. And so with the Gnosis comes
                    the conviction of spiritual knowledge that motivates us to actually
                    want to achieve spiritual liberation, not just talk about it. And
                    achieveing that liberation is the most interesting part. And so the
                    Gnosis gives motivation and direction, but actually walking the path
                    the Gnosis points at is where the real adventure begins.

                    Guy



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                  • j.j.salt
                    How much time have you got?? 8^] ... What are your experiences? Guy ... Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.
                    Message 9 of 15 , Dec 27, 2007
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                      How much time have you got??  8^]> 

                      isis_powered <isis_powered@...> wrote:
                      --- In gnosticism2@ yahoogroups. com, "j.j.salt" <jj_salt@... > wrote:
                      >
                      > I don't have to have faith. I have experience.
                      > ---Joseph Campbell

                      What are your experiences?

                      Guy



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                    • Mark
                      From my reading of some of the historical forms of Gnosticism, there appears to be a continuum between faith and gnosis wherein faith took precedence over
                      Message 10 of 15 , Dec 27, 2007
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                        From my reading of some of the historical forms of Gnosticism, there
                        appears to be a continuum between faith and gnosis wherein faith took
                        precedence over gnosis in the more orthodox forms, such as in Origin
                        and Paul, and gnosis took precedence over faith in the more heretical
                        forms, such as Valentinus and then Sethian. It seems that when it
                        comes to faith and gnosis it is not a question of either/or, but one
                        of both/and with the differences being one of relative weights. I
                        like how it is put in the Gospel of Philip (The Gnostic Bible, p.
                        291):

                        Faith is our earth in which we take root.
                        Hope is the water through which we are nourished.
                        Love is the wind through which we grow.
                        Gnosis is the light through which we ripen.

                        Mark

                        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "isis_powered" <isis_powered@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "j.j.salt" <jj_salt@> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > It depends upon one's definition of faith. In the conventional
                        > religious view, faith represents a belief that has no basis in
                        > experience or logic, and so the conventionally religious person
                        tends
                        > to inherit a stack of dogmas in which he or she places faith
                        because
                        > that is what was taught. This is sometimes, and aptly, referred to
                        > as "blind faith." For those of us who have experience, our faith
                        is
                        > tied to what we have come to know through experience, particularly
                        > our experience of the transcendental, but also based on how the
                        > experiences of others resonate with those things deep inside of us
                        > that are more profound than anything that can be taught. That is,
                        to
                        > me, what is meant by Gnosis in the broad sense.
                        > >
                        >
                        > To me Gnosis is knowledge, not faith. And so with the Gnosis comes
                        > the conviction of spiritual knowledge that motivates us to actually
                        > want to achieve spiritual liberation, not just talk about it. And
                        > achieveing that liberation is the most interesting part. And so
                        the
                        > Gnosis gives motivation and direction, but actually walking the
                        path
                        > the Gnosis points at is where the real adventure begins.
                        >
                        > Guy
                        >
                      • Phil
                        Hi Guy I hope nobody minds my responding to an old post. I do understand your aversion to arguments, but perhaps you would be willing to engage in civil
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jan 3, 2008
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                          Hi Guy
                          I hope nobody minds my responding to an old post.
                          I do understand your aversion to arguments, but perhaps you would be
                          willing to engage in civil discussion that may involve disagreement?
                          If so, I'm interested in how you would define "sin".
                          Thanks,
                          Phil



                          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "isis_powered" <isis_powered@...>
                          wrote:
                          >
                          > Finally I'm in a Gnostic discussion site. Over many years of
                          consent
                          > spiritual work I've gradually came to views and realizations that
                          are
                          > almost exactly as are found in Gnosticism and Manichaeism. But
                          > whenever I try to discuss them all people do is argue with me and
                          say
                          > that isn't true. I have even referred to articles in the
                          > encyclopedia and books written on it that shows that this is the
                          way
                          > Gnostics is and I'm not making all this up.
                          >
                          > But the most important thing of all is that I just don't believe
                          > these things, I actually walk the path. I quoted St. Paul
                          > saying, "5:21 Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." And
                          > so to me all those thoughts and justifications for tolerating sin I
                          > take as a bad thing, and the path that leads away from sin, as
                          taught
                          > in Gnosticism and for the same reasons, is good. And therefore
                          this
                          > saying of Paul proves that the path that leads away from sin is
                          > better then all the Christian beliefs and justifications that
                          > justifies sin. On this point all people want to do is argue with
                          me
                          > and wont let me get beyond this point. I guess I was just in the
                          > wrong bulletin board, I wish I would of started here in the first
                          > place, the Gnostic corner of the Internet.
                          >
                          > So greetings all.
                          > Guy
                          >
                        • theoj678@aol.com
                          In a message dated 1/4/2008 6:09:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, souldreamone@AOL.com writes: aversion to arguments ... Why would anyone be averse to argument?
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jan 4, 2008
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                            In a message dated 1/4/2008 6:09:06 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, souldreamone@... writes:
                            aversion to arguments
                            -------
                            Why would anyone be averse to argument?  How else can one learn or solve the unknown?
                                thea




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                          • souldreamone@AOL.com
                            In a message dated 1/4/2008 5:09:11 AM Pacific Standard Time, theoj678@aol.com writes: aversion to arguments ... Why would anyone be averse to argument? How
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jan 4, 2008
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                              In a message dated 1/4/2008 5:09:11 AM Pacific Standard Time, theoj678@... writes:
                              aversion to arguments
                              -------
                              Why would anyone be averse to argument?  How else can one learn or solve the unknown?
                                  thea
                              Guy's original post implied he was frustrated by the sort of closed argumentation in which there is no real listening or further communication. When one introduces oneself to a forum in that way, it may indicate an aversion to any argument, so I extended the courtesy of asking if it was okay to discuss.
                               
                              Phil
                               




                              Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
                            • theoj678@aol.com
                              In a message dated 1/4/2008 3:41:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, souldreamone@AOL.com writes: if it was okay to discuss. ... Discusion is great at a party or
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jan 4, 2008
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                                In a message dated 1/4/2008 3:41:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, souldreamone@... writes:
                                if it was okay to discuss.
                                -------------
                                Discusion is great at a party or about the weather; however, it would seem that one needs controversies to reach beyond an unknown to learn.  JMHO
                                    thea
                                 




                                Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
                              • souldreamone@AOL.com
                                In a message dated 1/4/2008 1:08:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, theoj678@aol.com writes: In a message dated 1/4/2008 3:41:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jan 4, 2008
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                                  In a message dated 1/4/2008 1:08:59 PM Pacific Standard Time, theoj678@... writes:
                                  In a message dated 1/4/2008 3:41:58 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, souldreamone@... writes:
                                  if it was okay to discuss.
                                  -------------
                                  Discusion is great at a party or about the weather; however, it would seem that one needs controversies to reach beyond an unknown to learn.  JMHO
                                      thea
                                  I believe you're right about that. Agreement may be comfy, but it seems to put us to sleep. It seems to me that all movement is through tension. The tension of desire is the movement of experience. Physical tension leads to movement. The tension of problems leads to creative solutions. The tension of suffering often leads to transcendence. So, tension was never a problem, it's the resistance to the 'movement' that becomes struggle. Tension....in-tense....intention. Hmmmmm.....thanks for helping create the tension so's I could notice that. Hehe.
                                   
                                  Phil
                                   




                                  Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape in the new year.
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