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Vatican rethinking Judas (fwd)

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  • Mike Leavitt
    Hello All, Thought this might be of interest on this list as well as that of the French Gnostic Church. *** Begin of forwarded message *** Date: 01/12/06 11:55
    Message 1 of 6 , Jan 12, 2006
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      Hello All,

      Thought this might be of interest on this list as well as that of the
      French Gnostic Church.

      *** Begin of forwarded message ***

      Date: 01/12/06 11:55 PM
      From: Rev. Eugene T. Search M.S. OCM/CSM/OCP
      Subject: [eglisegnostique] Vatican rethinking Judas

      --- Forwarded message follows ---


      http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C13509-1981591%2C00.html
      Judas is getting a makeover after 2000 years!

      G+

      *** End of forwarded message ***

      --
      Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
    • Gerry
      ... That s pretty remarkable, Mike. Now, the article mentions that this drive to revise how we look at Judas coincides with the upcoming release of the
      Message 2 of 6 , Jan 13, 2006
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        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:

        >
        > Hello All,
        >
        > Thought this might be of interest on this list as well as that of the
        > French Gnostic Church.
        >
        > *** Begin of forwarded message ***
        >
        > Date: 01/12/06 11:55 PM
        > From: Rev. Eugene T. Search M.S. OCM/CSM/OCP
        > Subject: [eglisegnostique] Vatican rethinking Judas
        >
        > --- Forwarded message follows ---
        >
        >
        > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C13509-1981591%2C00.html
        > Judas is getting a makeover after 2000 years!
        >
        > G+
        >
        > *** End of forwarded message ***
        >
        > --
        > Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
        >

         

        That's pretty remarkable, Mike.  Now, the article mentions that this drive to revise how we look at Judas "coincides" with the upcoming release of the translation of the  Gospel of Judas.  Mere coincidence … or preemptive damage control? 

        Speaking of that gospel, I have yet to see a completely reliable description of the new texts.  This article refers to the "Judas" portion as being 62 pages in length, but I was previously under the impression that all three books in that particular find amounted to that total.  If this is indeed the case, then there will be significantly more to see of the hitherto unseen work than the glimpses we have had of nine pages already.  Either way, this will be an interesting Easter present for all of us.

        Gerry

      • Mike Leavitt
        Hello Gerry ... Damage control I suspect. This must be a pretty well documented text, free of Gnostic heracy, or they wouldn t make the effort. perhaps they
        Message 3 of 6 , Jan 13, 2006
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          Hello Gerry

          On 01/13/06, you wrote:

          >
          >
          > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
          >>
          >> Hello All,
          >>
          >> Thought this might be of interest on this list as well as that of
          >> the
          >> French Gnostic Church.
          >>
          >> *** Begin of forwarded message ***
          >>
          >> Date: 01/12/06 11:55 PM
          >> From: Rev. Eugene T. Search M.S. OCM/CSM/OCP
          >> Subject: [eglisegnostique] Vatican rethinking Judas
          >>
          >> --- Forwarded message follows ---
          >>
          >>
          >> http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C13509-1981591%2C00.html
          >> Judas is getting a makeover after 2000 years!
          >>
          >> G+
          >>
          >> *** End of forwarded message ***
          >>
          >> --
          >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
          >>
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > That's pretty remarkable, Mike. Now, the article mentions that this
          > drive to revise how we look at Judas "coincides" with the upcoming
          > release of the translation of the Gospel of Judas. Mere coincidence
          > or preemptive damage control?
          >
          > Speaking of that gospel, I have yet to see a completely reliable
          > description of the new texts. This article refers to the "Judas"
          > portion as being 62 pages in length, but I was previously under the
          > impression that all three books in that particular find amounted to
          > that total. If this is indeed the case, then there will be
          > significantly more to see of the hitherto unseen work than the
          > glimpses we have had of nine pages already. Either way, this will be
          > an interesting Easter present for all of us.
          >
          > Gerry

          Damage control I suspect. This must be a pretty well documented text,
          free of Gnostic heracy, or they wouldn't make the effort. perhaps
          they have been able to date it to the early first century.

          Regards
          --
          Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
        • Gerry
          ... I m hopelessly cynical in this matter, so damage control would be my suspicion as well, but it still strikes me as odd that the Vatican would wait to
          Message 4 of 6 , Jan 14, 2006
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            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:

            >
            > Hello Gerry
            >
            >
            > Damage control I suspect. This must be a pretty well documented text,
            > free of Gnostic heracy, or they wouldn't make the effort. perhaps
            > they have been able to date it to the early first century.
            >
            > Regards
            > --
            > Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
            >

             

            I'm hopelessly cynical in this matter, so "damage control" would be my suspicion as well, but it still strikes me as odd that the Vatican would wait to begin such a change in posture with this particular text.  Far from being free of Gnostic heresy, the few bits I've seen seem to be quite full of it.  At the same time though, something else that deserves consideration is that there also appears to be some overlap in the dramatis personae; we have Saklas and Satanas making appearances, as well as Allogenes and Jesus.  Until we can view the text in its entirety, I don't think we can know whether each of those pairs refers to single individuals.  Either way though, it will be noteworthy.

            Gerry

          • Mike Leavitt
            Hello Gerry ... Even stranger with the grand inquisitor being pope now. Regards -- Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove - s
            Message 5 of 6 , Jan 14, 2006
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              Hello Gerry

              On 01/14/06, you wrote:

              >
              >
              > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
              >>
              >> Hello Gerry
              >>
              >>
              >> Damage control I suspect. This must be a pretty well documented
              >> text,
              >> free of Gnostic herecy, or they wouldn't make the effort. perhaps
              >> they have been able to date it to the early first century.
              >>
              >> Regards
              >> --
              >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
              >>
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > I'm hopelessly cynical in this matter, so "damage control" would be
              > my suspicion as well, but it still strikes me as odd that the
              > Vatican would wait to begin such a change in posture with this
              > particular text. Far from being free of Gnostic heresy, the few bits
              > I've seen seem to be quite full of it. At the same time though,
              > something else that deserves consideration is that there also
              > appears to be some overlap in the dramatis personae; we have Saklas
              > and Satanas making appearances, as well as Allogenes and Jesus.
              > Until we can view the text in its entirety, I don't think we can
              > know whether each of those pairs refers to single individuals.
              > Either way though, it will be noteworthy.
              >
              > Gerry
              >

              Even stranger with the grand inquisitor being pope now.

              Regards
              --
              Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
            • Tsharpmin7@aol.com
              hi Gerry.... this is a remarkable story. curious to see how it unfolds from here, especially right wing reactions in America. i didn t realize Gibson s
              Message 6 of 6 , Jan 21, 2006
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                hi Gerry.... this is a remarkable story.  curious to see
                how it unfolds from here, especially right wing
                reactions in America. 
                 
                i didn't realize Gibson's Passion movie portayed such a
                grissly demise for Judas.  i was under the impression
                his film was supposed to be a literal rendition of
                Matthew or John -- i've forgotten which.  were there
                other such fanciful ad libs in that film?  Martin
                Scorcese's The Last Temptation of Christ, which this
                article failed to mention, gives a sympathetic portrayal
                of Judas as very reluctant to turn Jesus in to the
                authorities: Jesus goes to great lengths to convince 
                Judas that it has to be done.
                 
                your friend,
                 
                Crispin Sainte III
                 
                In a message dated 1/13/2006 11:19:18 AM Central Standard Time, gerryhsp@... writes:

                --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello All,
                >
                > Thought this might be of interest on this list as well as that of the
                > French Gnostic Church.
                >
                > *** Begin of forwarded message ***
                >
                > Date: 01/12/06 11:55 PM
                > From: Rev. Eugene T. Search M.S. OCM/CSM/OCP
                > Subject: [eglisegnostique] Vatican rethinking Judas
                >
                > --- Forwarded message follows ---
                >
                >
                > http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C13509-1981591%2C00.html
                > Judas is getting a makeover after 2000 years!
                >
                > G+
                >
                > *** End of forwarded message ***
                >
                > --
                > Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                >

                 

                That's pretty remarkable, Mike.  Now, the article mentions that this drive to revise how we look at Judas "coincides" with the upcoming release of the translation of the  Gospel of Judas.  Mere coincidence … or preemptive damage control? 

                Speaking of that gospel, I have yet to see a completely reliable description of the new texts.  This article refers to the "Judas" portion as being 62 pages in length, but I was previously under the impression that all three books in that particular find amounted to that total.  If this is indeed the case, then there will be significantly more to see of the hitherto unseen work than the glimpses we have had of nine pages already.  Either way, this will be an interesting Easter present for all of us.

                Gerry

                 
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