- God is all things limited and unlimited. The creator was left in charge, the temple guardian. Everything in creation is not perfect, there is only oneMessage 1 of 99 , Jan 6, 2006View SourceGod is all things limited and unlimited. The creator was left in charge, the temple guardian. Everything in creation is not perfect, there is only one perfection. Like a thief, in the rabbinical sense, a helper, you give motion to the little piece of God within you. Perfection is not going to let a piece of itself go, so you have to steal it. But like a little kid taking a cookie out of the cookie jar without asking, perfection looks the other way because you are food to God just as God is food to you. God gave you free will, what you choose to do with it is your choice. I chose to be a helper, and darned if you don't know it, God likes volunteers. It's what I want to do. I see great purpose in it. In creation you have to have trauma in order to have hope, or a struggle to grow. In God you don't have to have hope, you are in traditional terms already saved, it's just a matter of do you have your glasses on to see it. To walk with God for me, in one sense of the word is understanding these two things together, not separated from each other but joined together. I understand it to be one of the meanings behind "let not two things which God has put together be separated." But then there are many different meaning to all of the visions that people see of God within themselves and their neighbors. The Living Word has a place and meaning for everyone, each one different and beautiful. I think that is most important about what it means for unity in God, in one meaning. Of course there are fourteen senses to a word, so fourteen levels of paradox for each meaning, but not every level of paradox is relevant to what you need. God shows you what is relevant to you. So in a sense, self and no self are equally important.One of my recently favorite jokes is that the Torah says it's about self, Buddah says there is no self, so maybe we're all off the hook.The greatest thing is that you can leave God, but God will never leave you.At least that's been my eye opening experience.Luci
lady_caritas <email@example.com> wrote:
I won't dispute your statement, Luci.
However, you also did originally assign attributes to this god of
which you speak. For instance, one of these characteristics was that
this god made our world. The Valentinians believed that the world
was created imperfect by a demiurge, not the "True God."
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, LUCINDA MANNING
> God is God.
> lady_caritas wrote:
> --- In email@example.com, LUCINDA MANNING
> > God does not give people anything they cannot handle. I do
> sometimes the people don't know what to do to help them and that it
> interrupts their spiritual evolution because they have no point of
> relevance. So I don't believe that God would be giving matches to a
> child, much less gasoline. God made a world of people that is the
> rainbow of everyone being beautiful and different as it should be.
> Luci, which "God" are you referring to? How does the creator, the
> artisan, the "demiurge," that the Gnostics use in their mythologies
> compare/contrast to the god you describe that made a world,
> a "rainbow" of everyone being beautiful, not given anything they
> cannot handle???
> Yahoo! Groups Links
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~-->
Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing
Yahoo! Groups Links
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
- hello AA.... maybe these particular Wiccan and New Age teachers you speak of need to develop the capacity to recognize those empty containers (I think ofMessage 99 of 99 , Jan 27, 2006View Sourcehello AA.... maybe these particular Wiccan and NewAge teachers you speak of need to develop the capacityto recognize those "empty containers" (I think of thetype of approach you described more as entertainmentand identity seeking) and turn them away at the doorbefore they waste everbody else's time and energy....unless, of course, as part of the teaching, thesemystical tourists are being made examples of. sometransformative traditions have this technique down toa virtual art form. its not as cruel or cold as it soundswhen to do so serves a higher purpose. which is notto say that the individual, whether they are turnedaway or made an example of, does not benefit atsome level.Your friend,Crispin Sainte IIIIn a message dated 1/26/2006 5:34:03 PM Central Standard Time, koalaKards@... writes:Hi,I don't know if this is Homer or Crispin's quote:"but imitating hand-me-down transformative traditionsin hopes of duplicating their highest accomplishmentsis pretty silly, yet it is the most common thing in theworld and few ever think twice about it. this may be abit of a cliche, but it really does boil down to containerand content; surface and depth. so if you canrecognize those who rely on the container; those whoappear to you to be empty vessels, you're way aheadof the game. and I believe you are!"I'm seeing this in Wiccan/New Age Community. Lots of wannabees they see Charmed and they look for people in the craft to teach "all that they know" then they consider themselves to be a High Priest/tess or in even New Age circles, Reiki Mastership in a weekend, or people calling themselves shaman after taking a single class just to say they are. I consider them to be "empty vessels". AA
Tsharpmin7@... wrote:hey Homer... you seem to have developed a prettymature and perceptive outlook regarding thesematters in a very short time. you're going to spareyourself a lot of wasted energy.some people approach traditional systems like Fredand Barney in the Flintstones cartoons approach theBuffalo Lodge: for its entertainment and social benefit.The secret handshakes are fun and its good to makefriends with a common interest and slip away fromthe mundane and routine. and there is nothing atall wrong with that as long you're not mistaking it forsomething higher.but imitating hand-me-down transformative traditionsin hopes of duplicating their highest accomplishmentsis pretty silly, yet it is the most common thing in theworld and few ever think twice about it. this may be abit of a cliche, but it really does boil down to containerand content; surface and depth. so if you canrecognize those who rely on the container; those whoappear to you to be empty vessels, you're way aheadof the game. and I believe you are!the use of specialized language, myth and allegorymay serve a very specific purpose when employed bythose who have already arrived where I think you wishto someday arrive, Homer. i think you'll understandthe way and why of it as you continue to study theancient Gnostics. and i do agree with you in the sensethat if there were a live and functioning Gnosticismtoday -- and i can't say for sure there isn't -- i imaginetheir use of metaphor and allegory would draw frommore contemporary sources than those employed bythe ancients; that those dusty old paradigms wouldhave long since been discarded as barriers to learningin favor of something much more accessible andimmediate. to foment confusion, even if it'sinadvertant, should be a very trustworthy indication tous that IT'S NOT HERE!as you so wisely suggest, Homer, mystery for the sakeof mystery is just plain vanity and gamesmanship.they are what they are, not what they could be.Your friend,Crispin Sainte IIIIn a message dated 1/26/2006 2:03:26 PM Central Standard Time, shaftpopper@... writes:Dear Crispin,This makes good sense to me. From what I've seen I think there is a lot of copying without understanding if what they're copying is even needed anymore. Its the same with some of the language and the myths and allegories. If I really want somebody to understand me or learn something I can teach I would try to make it as plain as I could. But I think some people like to be mysterious because it makes them feel special, and I think that just encourages the false self or our vanity. I feel like that's the wrong direction to go if you are trying to find something like what the original Gnostics were searching for. I like how in the Gnostic Gospels the Gnostics wouldn't waste their lives to be martyrs if they could help it. What a shame and a waste it would have been if they copied the orthodox Christians who thought that copying the Jesus myth would automatic get them in heaven. I think the Gnostics knew God would have to be insane to want something so cruel.Homer