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Re: [Gnosticism2] Re: If....

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  • deby estephan
    question please: where do I get a copy of what you are reading from so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank you, Deby ... more ...
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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      question please: where do I get a copy of what you are reading from so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank you, Deby

      lady_caritas <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello lady_caritas
      >
      > On 12/13/05, you wrote:
      >
      > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...>
      wrote:
      > >>
      > >> Hello pmcvflag
      > >>
      > >> On 12/10/05, you wrote:
      > >>
      > >>>>> And do it with original texts.<<<
      > >>>
      > >>> WOW... I think we better examine whether you were THAT good of a
      > >>> boy, Mike!!!! ;) Well, I guess we should be proud that we have
      > > such
      > >> > a demanding group of people.
      > >> >
      > >> > So, uhm... how about anything you guys can think of for the
      more
      > >> > immediate function I had in mind; some subject that doesn't
      get
      > >> > talked about which we can work on in here?
      > >> >
      > >> > PMCV
      > >>
      > >> How about a discussion of the eternal "now" in a Gnotic context,
      > >> I'm reading On The Origins of the World, set in the past, yet it
      > >> seems
      > > it
      > >> is all happening now as I read it. I react this way to a lot of
      the
      > >> Gnostic scriptures.
      > >>
      > >> Regards
      > >> --
      > >> Mike Leavitt  ac998_@_lafn._org  remove -'s
      > >>
      > >
      > >
      > > Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about
      your
      > > reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
      > > scriptures? :-)
      > >
      > > Cari
      >
      > It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in the
      > distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on now, in
      > me., or outside of time altogether.  There is an impact of immedacy,
      > especially in On The Creation of the World.
      >
      > Regards
      > --
      > Mike Leavitt  ac998_@_lafn._org  remove -'s
      >

      That's interesting, Mike.  Mythology can be powerful.  I'm curious;
      do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with any
      characters of the myth?

      Cari






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    • lady_caritas
      ... so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank you, Deby ... Hello, Deby. You can find On the Origin of the World and other Gnostic
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, deby estephan <nicudle2002@y...>
        wrote:
        >
        > question please: where do I get a copy of what you are reading from
        so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank
        you, Deby
        >


        Hello, Deby. You can find "On the Origin of the World" and other
        Gnostic scriptures at gnosis.org ~
        http://gnosis.org/naghamm/origin.html

        Also, a couple books of Gnostic text selections that include this
        work are _The Nag Hammadi Library_, edited by James M. Robinson, and
        _The Gnostic Bible_, edited by Barnstone and Meyer.

        Feel free to jump in conversation anytime, Deby.

        Cari
      • Mike Leavitt
        Hello lady_caritas ... It varries, sometimes the sophia character, sometimes the narrator, sometimes just as an observer. I did identify with the archon
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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          Hello lady_caritas

          On 12/13/05, you wrote:

          >> It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in the
          >> distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on now,
          >> in me., or outside of time altogether. There is an impact of
          >> immedacy, especially in On The Creation of the World.
          >>
          >> Regards
          >> --
          >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
          >>
          >
          > That's interesting, Mike. Mythology can be powerful. I'm curious;
          > do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with any
          > characters of the myth?
          >
          > Cari

          It varries, sometimes the sophia character, sometimes the narrator,
          sometimes just as an observer. I did identify with the archon
          Saboath as he was beatified for seeing through his father, but that
          happened years ago too when I read the Hypostasis of the Archons in
          NHL.

          Regards
          --
          Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
        • Mike Leavitt
          Hello deby ... THE GNOSTIC BIBLE Barnstone and Myer/Shamballa is the publisher. A very heavy book in more than one sense of the term. Regards -- Mike Leavitt
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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            Hello deby

            On 12/14/05, you wrote:

            > question please: where do I get a copy of what you are reading from
            > so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank
            > you, Deby

            THE GNOSTIC BIBLE Barnstone and Myer/Shamballa is the publisher. A
            very heavy book in more than one sense of the term.

            Regards
            --
            Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
          • pmcvflag
            Hey all This is a GREAT idea for discussion. I wish I could post more, but this is my last day before my big trip. I just wanted to throw a little fuel in the
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 16, 2005
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              Hey all

              This is a GREAT idea for discussion. I wish I could post more, but
              this is my last day before my big trip. I just wanted to throw a
              little fuel in the tank before I go.

              I find this intersting in the Gospel of Truth. When it talks about
              the "Error" and how it disolves into "Truth", sometimes it seems to
              talk about it as something that will happen, other times as
              something that already happened. There seems to be an ambiguity
              between past, present, and future.

              One could wonder if this is a glitch in the translation, but one
              could also see this as part of a general perception that the
              cosmology, soteriology, and eschatology are all one thing to some
              extent, and they repeat each time an individual comes to understand
              them. When does the Christ rise? When the psychic is initiated into
              pneumaticism. When does the error fade? When the Gnostic sees the
              light of the Father. When does the Kingdom of the Father
              come? ....... It is before us but man does not see it.

              Happened, happening, will happen; in the light of an initiatory
              process the destinction between these tenses may not always be
              clear... or even important beyond what they mean to the process
              itself.

              Maybe you all can think of other specific examples in the texts

              Ok, that is probably my last post for awhile, so you all take care
              and have a great holiday season!!! Keep the conversation alive :)

              PMCV

              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
              >
              > Hello lady_caritas
              >
              > On 12/13/05, you wrote:
              >
              > >> It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in
              the
              > >> distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on
              now,
              > >> in me., or outside of time altogether. There is an impact of
              > >> immedacy, especially in On The Creation of the World.
              > >>
              > >> Regards
              > >> --
              > >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
              > >>
              > >
              > > That's interesting, Mike. Mythology can be powerful. I'm
              curious;
              > > do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with
              any
              > > characters of the myth?
              > >
              > > Cari
              >
              > It varries, sometimes the sophia character, sometimes the narrator,
              > sometimes just as an observer. I did identify with the archon
              > Saboath as he was beatified for seeing through his father, but that
              > happened years ago too when I read the Hypostasis of the Archons in
              > NHL.
              >
              > Regards
              > --
              > Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
              >
            • Mike Leavitt
              Hello pmcvflag See below. ... Pedantic point, it is origin not creation in the title in the Gnostic Bible. Time is ancy anyway, in eternity it does not exist.
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 16, 2005
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                Hello pmcvflag

                See below.

                On 12/16/05, you wrote:

                > Hey all
                >
                > This is a GREAT idea for discussion. I wish I could post more, but
                > this is my last day before my big trip. I just wanted to throw a
                > little fuel in the tank before I go.
                >
                > I find this intersting in the Gospel of Truth. When it talks about
                > the "Error" and how it disolves into "Truth", sometimes it seems to
                > talk about it as something that will happen, other times as
                > something that already happened. There seems to be an ambiguity
                > between past, present, and future.
                >
                > One could wonder if this is a glitch in the translation, but one
                > could also see this as part of a general perception that the
                > cosmology, soteriology, and eschatology are all one thing to some
                > extent, and they repeat each time an individual comes to understand
                > them. When does the Christ rise? When the psychic is initiated into
                > pneumaticism. When does the error fade? When the Gnostic sees the
                > light of the Father. When does the Kingdom of the Father
                > come? ....... It is before us but man does not see it.
                >
                > Happened, happening, will happen; in the light of an initiatory
                > process the destinction between these tenses may not always be
                > clear... or even important beyond what they mean to the process
                > itself.
                >
                > Maybe you all can think of other specific examples in the texts
                >
                > Ok, that is probably my last post for awhile, so you all take care
                > and have a great holiday season!!! Keep the conversation alive :)
                >
                > PMCV
                >
                > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                >>
                >> Hello lady_caritas
                >>
                >> On 12/13/05, you wrote:
                >>
                >>>> It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in
                > the
                >>>> distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on
                > now,
                >>>> in me., or outside of time altogether. There is an impact of
                >>>> immedacy, especially in On The Creation of the World.
                >>>>
                >>>> Regards
                >>>> --
                >>>> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                >>>>

                Pedantic point, it is origin not creation in the title in the Gnostic
                Bible. Time is ancy anyway, in eternity it does not exist.

                >>>
                >>> That's interesting, Mike. Mythology can be powerful. I'm
                > curious;
                >>> do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with
                > any
                >>> characters of the myth?
                >>>
                >>> Cari
                >>
                >> It varries, sometimes the sophia character, sometimes the narrator,
                >> sometimes just as an observer. I did identify with the archon
                >> Saboath as he was beatified for seeing through his father, but that
                >> happened years ago too when I read the Hypostasis of the Archons in
                >> NHL.
                >>
                >> Regards
                >> --
                >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
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                Regards
                --
                Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
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