Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: If....

Expand Messages
  • Mike Leavitt
    Hello janahooks ... It is a philosophical term, and you should be able to look it up, simply it is the idea that the only reality is now, and that the past and
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
      Hello janahooks

      On 12/13/05, you wrote:

      > Mike & Lady C.,
      >
      >> Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about your
      >> reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
      >> scriptures? :-)
      >
      > Wait for the slow one to catch up...what's the "eternal now"? Is
      > this something I can look up, or is the term a Mike-ism? :)
      >
      > jana

      It is a philosophical term, and you should be able to look it up,
      simply it is the idea that the only reality is now, and that the past
      and future really do not exist as such, only as concepts. I hope I
      got that right.

      Regards
      --
      Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
    • lady_caritas
      ... your ... past ... Hi, Mike, jana... The Neoplatonist Plotinus used this concept. The eternal now transcends the temporal world of change, if I remember
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello janahooks
        >
        > On 12/13/05, you wrote:
        >
        > > Mike & Lady C.,
        > >
        > >> Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about
        your
        > >> reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
        > >> scriptures? :-)
        > >
        > > Wait for the slow one to catch up...what's the "eternal now"? Is
        > > this something I can look up, or is the term a Mike-ism? :)
        > >
        > > jana
        >
        > It is a philosophical term, and you should be able to look it up,
        > simply it is the idea that the only reality is now, and that the
        past
        > and future really do not exist as such, only as concepts. I hope I
        > got that right.
        >
        > Regards
        > --
        > Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
        >

        Hi, Mike, jana... The Neoplatonist Plotinus used this concept.
        The "eternal now" transcends the temporal world of change, if I
        remember correctly.

        Cari
      • lady_caritas
        ... more ... get ... the ... your ... That s interesting, Mike. Mythology can be powerful. I m curious; do you experience this as an observer or do you
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello lady_caritas
          >
          > On 12/13/05, you wrote:
          >
          > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...>
          wrote:
          > >>
          > >> Hello pmcvflag
          > >>
          > >> On 12/10/05, you wrote:
          > >>
          > >>>>> And do it with original texts.<<<
          > >>>
          > >>> WOW... I think we better examine whether you were THAT good of a
          > >>> boy, Mike!!!! ;) Well, I guess we should be proud that we have
          > > such
          > >> > a demanding group of people.
          > >> >
          > >> > So, uhm... how about anything you guys can think of for the
          more
          > >> > immediate function I had in mind; some subject that doesn't
          get
          > >> > talked about which we can work on in here?
          > >> >
          > >> > PMCV
          > >>
          > >> How about a discussion of the eternal "now" in a Gnotic context,
          > >> I'm reading On The Origins of the World, set in the past, yet it
          > >> seems
          > > it
          > >> is all happening now as I read it. I react this way to a lot of
          the
          > >> Gnostic scriptures.
          > >>
          > >> Regards
          > >> --
          > >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > > Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about
          your
          > > reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
          > > scriptures? :-)
          > >
          > > Cari
          >
          > It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in the
          > distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on now, in
          > me., or outside of time altogether. There is an impact of immedacy,
          > especially in On The Creation of the World.
          >
          > Regards
          > --
          > Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
          >

          That's interesting, Mike. Mythology can be powerful. I'm curious;
          do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with any
          characters of the myth?

          Cari
        • deby estephan
          question please: where do I get a copy of what you are reading from so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank you, Deby ... more ...
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
            question please: where do I get a copy of what you are reading from so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank you, Deby

            lady_caritas <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
            >
            > Hello lady_caritas
            >
            > On 12/13/05, you wrote:
            >
            > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...>
            wrote:
            > >>
            > >> Hello pmcvflag
            > >>
            > >> On 12/10/05, you wrote:
            > >>
            > >>>>> And do it with original texts.<<<
            > >>>
            > >>> WOW... I think we better examine whether you were THAT good of a
            > >>> boy, Mike!!!! ;) Well, I guess we should be proud that we have
            > > such
            > >> > a demanding group of people.
            > >> >
            > >> > So, uhm... how about anything you guys can think of for the
            more
            > >> > immediate function I had in mind; some subject that doesn't
            get
            > >> > talked about which we can work on in here?
            > >> >
            > >> > PMCV
            > >>
            > >> How about a discussion of the eternal "now" in a Gnotic context,
            > >> I'm reading On The Origins of the World, set in the past, yet it
            > >> seems
            > > it
            > >> is all happening now as I read it. I react this way to a lot of
            the
            > >> Gnostic scriptures.
            > >>
            > >> Regards
            > >> --
            > >> Mike Leavitt  ac998_@_lafn._org  remove -'s
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > > Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about
            your
            > > reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
            > > scriptures? :-)
            > >
            > > Cari
            >
            > It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in the
            > distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on now, in
            > me., or outside of time altogether.  There is an impact of immedacy,
            > especially in On The Creation of the World.
            >
            > Regards
            > --
            > Mike Leavitt  ac998_@_lafn._org  remove -'s
            >

            That's interesting, Mike.  Mythology can be powerful.  I'm curious;
            do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with any
            characters of the myth?

            Cari






            Yahoo! Shopping
            Find Great Deals on Holiday Gifts at Yahoo! Shopping

          • lady_caritas
            ... so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank you, Deby ... Hello, Deby. You can find On the Origin of the World and other Gnostic
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, deby estephan <nicudle2002@y...>
              wrote:
              >
              > question please: where do I get a copy of what you are reading from
              so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank
              you, Deby
              >


              Hello, Deby. You can find "On the Origin of the World" and other
              Gnostic scriptures at gnosis.org ~
              http://gnosis.org/naghamm/origin.html

              Also, a couple books of Gnostic text selections that include this
              work are _The Nag Hammadi Library_, edited by James M. Robinson, and
              _The Gnostic Bible_, edited by Barnstone and Meyer.

              Feel free to jump in conversation anytime, Deby.

              Cari
            • Mike Leavitt
              Hello lady_caritas ... It varries, sometimes the sophia character, sometimes the narrator, sometimes just as an observer. I did identify with the archon
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
                Hello lady_caritas

                On 12/13/05, you wrote:

                >> It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in the
                >> distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on now,
                >> in me., or outside of time altogether. There is an impact of
                >> immedacy, especially in On The Creation of the World.
                >>
                >> Regards
                >> --
                >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                >>
                >
                > That's interesting, Mike. Mythology can be powerful. I'm curious;
                > do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with any
                > characters of the myth?
                >
                > Cari

                It varries, sometimes the sophia character, sometimes the narrator,
                sometimes just as an observer. I did identify with the archon
                Saboath as he was beatified for seeing through his father, but that
                happened years ago too when I read the Hypostasis of the Archons in
                NHL.

                Regards
                --
                Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
              • Mike Leavitt
                Hello deby ... THE GNOSTIC BIBLE Barnstone and Myer/Shamballa is the publisher. A very heavy book in more than one sense of the term. Regards -- Mike Leavitt
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
                  Hello deby

                  On 12/14/05, you wrote:

                  > question please: where do I get a copy of what you are reading from
                  > so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank
                  > you, Deby

                  THE GNOSTIC BIBLE Barnstone and Myer/Shamballa is the publisher. A
                  very heavy book in more than one sense of the term.

                  Regards
                  --
                  Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                • pmcvflag
                  Hey all This is a GREAT idea for discussion. I wish I could post more, but this is my last day before my big trip. I just wanted to throw a little fuel in the
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 16, 2005
                    Hey all

                    This is a GREAT idea for discussion. I wish I could post more, but
                    this is my last day before my big trip. I just wanted to throw a
                    little fuel in the tank before I go.

                    I find this intersting in the Gospel of Truth. When it talks about
                    the "Error" and how it disolves into "Truth", sometimes it seems to
                    talk about it as something that will happen, other times as
                    something that already happened. There seems to be an ambiguity
                    between past, present, and future.

                    One could wonder if this is a glitch in the translation, but one
                    could also see this as part of a general perception that the
                    cosmology, soteriology, and eschatology are all one thing to some
                    extent, and they repeat each time an individual comes to understand
                    them. When does the Christ rise? When the psychic is initiated into
                    pneumaticism. When does the error fade? When the Gnostic sees the
                    light of the Father. When does the Kingdom of the Father
                    come? ....... It is before us but man does not see it.

                    Happened, happening, will happen; in the light of an initiatory
                    process the destinction between these tenses may not always be
                    clear... or even important beyond what they mean to the process
                    itself.

                    Maybe you all can think of other specific examples in the texts

                    Ok, that is probably my last post for awhile, so you all take care
                    and have a great holiday season!!! Keep the conversation alive :)

                    PMCV

                    --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello lady_caritas
                    >
                    > On 12/13/05, you wrote:
                    >
                    > >> It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in
                    the
                    > >> distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on
                    now,
                    > >> in me., or outside of time altogether. There is an impact of
                    > >> immedacy, especially in On The Creation of the World.
                    > >>
                    > >> Regards
                    > >> --
                    > >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > > That's interesting, Mike. Mythology can be powerful. I'm
                    curious;
                    > > do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with
                    any
                    > > characters of the myth?
                    > >
                    > > Cari
                    >
                    > It varries, sometimes the sophia character, sometimes the narrator,
                    > sometimes just as an observer. I did identify with the archon
                    > Saboath as he was beatified for seeing through his father, but that
                    > happened years ago too when I read the Hypostasis of the Archons in
                    > NHL.
                    >
                    > Regards
                    > --
                    > Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                    >
                  • Mike Leavitt
                    Hello pmcvflag See below. ... Pedantic point, it is origin not creation in the title in the Gnostic Bible. Time is ancy anyway, in eternity it does not exist.
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 16, 2005
                      Hello pmcvflag

                      See below.

                      On 12/16/05, you wrote:

                      > Hey all
                      >
                      > This is a GREAT idea for discussion. I wish I could post more, but
                      > this is my last day before my big trip. I just wanted to throw a
                      > little fuel in the tank before I go.
                      >
                      > I find this intersting in the Gospel of Truth. When it talks about
                      > the "Error" and how it disolves into "Truth", sometimes it seems to
                      > talk about it as something that will happen, other times as
                      > something that already happened. There seems to be an ambiguity
                      > between past, present, and future.
                      >
                      > One could wonder if this is a glitch in the translation, but one
                      > could also see this as part of a general perception that the
                      > cosmology, soteriology, and eschatology are all one thing to some
                      > extent, and they repeat each time an individual comes to understand
                      > them. When does the Christ rise? When the psychic is initiated into
                      > pneumaticism. When does the error fade? When the Gnostic sees the
                      > light of the Father. When does the Kingdom of the Father
                      > come? ....... It is before us but man does not see it.
                      >
                      > Happened, happening, will happen; in the light of an initiatory
                      > process the destinction between these tenses may not always be
                      > clear... or even important beyond what they mean to the process
                      > itself.
                      >
                      > Maybe you all can think of other specific examples in the texts
                      >
                      > Ok, that is probably my last post for awhile, so you all take care
                      > and have a great holiday season!!! Keep the conversation alive :)
                      >
                      > PMCV
                      >
                      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                      >>
                      >> Hello lady_caritas
                      >>
                      >> On 12/13/05, you wrote:
                      >>
                      >>>> It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in
                      > the
                      >>>> distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on
                      > now,
                      >>>> in me., or outside of time altogether. There is an impact of
                      >>>> immedacy, especially in On The Creation of the World.
                      >>>>
                      >>>> Regards
                      >>>> --
                      >>>> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                      >>>>

                      Pedantic point, it is origin not creation in the title in the Gnostic
                      Bible. Time is ancy anyway, in eternity it does not exist.

                      >>>
                      >>> That's interesting, Mike. Mythology can be powerful. I'm
                      > curious;
                      >>> do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with
                      > any
                      >>> characters of the myth?
                      >>>
                      >>> Cari
                      >>
                      >> It varries, sometimes the sophia character, sometimes the narrator,
                      >> sometimes just as an observer. I did identify with the archon
                      >> Saboath as he was beatified for seeing through his father, but that
                      >> happened years ago too when I read the Hypostasis of the Archons in
                      >> NHL.
                      >>
                      >> Regards
                      >> --
                      >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                      >>
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                      > --------------------~--> Join modern day disciples reach the
                      > disfigured and poor with hope and healing
                      > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/BYrrlB/TM
                      >
                      --------------------------------------------------------------------~->
                      >
                      >
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      Regards
                      --
                      Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.