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  • Mike Leavitt
    Hello pmcvflag ... How about a discussion of the eternal now in a Gnotic context, I m reading On The Origins of the World, set in the past, yet it seems it
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 10, 2005
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      Hello pmcvflag

      On 12/10/05, you wrote:

      >>> And do it with original texts.<<<
      >
      > WOW... I think we better examine whether you were THAT good of a
      > boy, Mike!!!! ;) Well, I guess we should be proud that we have such
      > a demanding group of people.
      >
      > So, uhm... how about anything you guys can think of for the more
      > immediate function I had in mind; some subject that doesn't get
      > talked about which we can work on in here?
      >
      > PMCV

      How about a discussion of the eternal "now" in a Gnotic context, I'm
      reading On The Origins of the World, set in the past, yet it seems it
      is all happening now as I read it. I react this way to a lot of the
      Gnostic scriptures.

      Regards
      --
      Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
    • lady_caritas
      ... such ... it ... Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about your reactions of the eternal now derived from reading Gnostic
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 12, 2005
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        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
        >
        > Hello pmcvflag
        >
        > On 12/10/05, you wrote:
        >
        > >>> And do it with original texts.<<<
        > >
        > > WOW... I think we better examine whether you were THAT good of a
        > > boy, Mike!!!! ;) Well, I guess we should be proud that we have
        such
        > > a demanding group of people.
        > >
        > > So, uhm... how about anything you guys can think of for the more
        > > immediate function I had in mind; some subject that doesn't get
        > > talked about which we can work on in here?
        > >
        > > PMCV
        >
        > How about a discussion of the eternal "now" in a Gnotic context, I'm
        > reading On The Origins of the World, set in the past, yet it seems
        it
        > is all happening now as I read it. I react this way to a lot of the
        > Gnostic scriptures.
        >
        > Regards
        > --
        > Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
        >


        Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about your
        reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
        scriptures? :-)

        Cari
      • janahooks
        Mike & Lady C., ... Wait for the slow one to catch up...what s the eternal now ? Is this something I can look up, or is the term a Mike-ism? :) jana
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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          Mike & Lady C.,

          > Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about your
          > reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
          > scriptures? :-)

          Wait for the slow one to catch up...what's the "eternal now"? Is this
          something I can look up, or is the term a Mike-ism? :)

          jana
        • Mike Leavitt
          Hello lady_caritas ... It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in the distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on now, in
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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            Hello lady_caritas

            On 12/13/05, you wrote:

            > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
            >>
            >> Hello pmcvflag
            >>
            >> On 12/10/05, you wrote:
            >>
            >>>>> And do it with original texts.<<<
            >>>
            >>> WOW... I think we better examine whether you were THAT good of a
            >>> boy, Mike!!!! ;) Well, I guess we should be proud that we have
            > such
            >> > a demanding group of people.
            >> >
            >> > So, uhm... how about anything you guys can think of for the more
            >> > immediate function I had in mind; some subject that doesn't get
            >> > talked about which we can work on in here?
            >> >
            >> > PMCV
            >>
            >> How about a discussion of the eternal "now" in a Gnotic context,
            >> I'm reading On The Origins of the World, set in the past, yet it
            >> seems
            > it
            >> is all happening now as I read it. I react this way to a lot of the
            >> Gnostic scriptures.
            >>
            >> Regards
            >> --
            >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
            >>
            >
            >
            > Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about your
            > reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
            > scriptures? :-)
            >
            > Cari

            It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in the
            distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on now, in
            me., or outside of time altogether. There is an impact of immedacy,
            especially in On The Creation of the World.

            Regards
            --
            Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
          • Mike Leavitt
            Hello janahooks ... It is a philosophical term, and you should be able to look it up, simply it is the idea that the only reality is now, and that the past and
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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              Hello janahooks

              On 12/13/05, you wrote:

              > Mike & Lady C.,
              >
              >> Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about your
              >> reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
              >> scriptures? :-)
              >
              > Wait for the slow one to catch up...what's the "eternal now"? Is
              > this something I can look up, or is the term a Mike-ism? :)
              >
              > jana

              It is a philosophical term, and you should be able to look it up,
              simply it is the idea that the only reality is now, and that the past
              and future really do not exist as such, only as concepts. I hope I
              got that right.

              Regards
              --
              Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
            • lady_caritas
              ... your ... past ... Hi, Mike, jana... The Neoplatonist Plotinus used this concept. The eternal now transcends the temporal world of change, if I remember
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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                --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                >
                > Hello janahooks
                >
                > On 12/13/05, you wrote:
                >
                > > Mike & Lady C.,
                > >
                > >> Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about
                your
                > >> reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
                > >> scriptures? :-)
                > >
                > > Wait for the slow one to catch up...what's the "eternal now"? Is
                > > this something I can look up, or is the term a Mike-ism? :)
                > >
                > > jana
                >
                > It is a philosophical term, and you should be able to look it up,
                > simply it is the idea that the only reality is now, and that the
                past
                > and future really do not exist as such, only as concepts. I hope I
                > got that right.
                >
                > Regards
                > --
                > Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                >

                Hi, Mike, jana... The Neoplatonist Plotinus used this concept.
                The "eternal now" transcends the temporal world of change, if I
                remember correctly.

                Cari
              • lady_caritas
                ... more ... get ... the ... your ... That s interesting, Mike. Mythology can be powerful. I m curious; do you experience this as an observer or do you
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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                  --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello lady_caritas
                  >
                  > On 12/13/05, you wrote:
                  >
                  > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...>
                  wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >> Hello pmcvflag
                  > >>
                  > >> On 12/10/05, you wrote:
                  > >>
                  > >>>>> And do it with original texts.<<<
                  > >>>
                  > >>> WOW... I think we better examine whether you were THAT good of a
                  > >>> boy, Mike!!!! ;) Well, I guess we should be proud that we have
                  > > such
                  > >> > a demanding group of people.
                  > >> >
                  > >> > So, uhm... how about anything you guys can think of for the
                  more
                  > >> > immediate function I had in mind; some subject that doesn't
                  get
                  > >> > talked about which we can work on in here?
                  > >> >
                  > >> > PMCV
                  > >>
                  > >> How about a discussion of the eternal "now" in a Gnotic context,
                  > >> I'm reading On The Origins of the World, set in the past, yet it
                  > >> seems
                  > > it
                  > >> is all happening now as I read it. I react this way to a lot of
                  the
                  > >> Gnostic scriptures.
                  > >>
                  > >> Regards
                  > >> --
                  > >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                  > >>
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about
                  your
                  > > reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
                  > > scriptures? :-)
                  > >
                  > > Cari
                  >
                  > It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in the
                  > distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on now, in
                  > me., or outside of time altogether. There is an impact of immedacy,
                  > especially in On The Creation of the World.
                  >
                  > Regards
                  > --
                  > Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                  >

                  That's interesting, Mike. Mythology can be powerful. I'm curious;
                  do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with any
                  characters of the myth?

                  Cari
                • deby estephan
                  question please: where do I get a copy of what you are reading from so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank you, Deby ... more ...
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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                    question please: where do I get a copy of what you are reading from so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank you, Deby

                    lady_caritas <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                    --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello lady_caritas
                    >
                    > On 12/13/05, you wrote:
                    >
                    > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...>
                    wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >> Hello pmcvflag
                    > >>
                    > >> On 12/10/05, you wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >>>>> And do it with original texts.<<<
                    > >>>
                    > >>> WOW... I think we better examine whether you were THAT good of a
                    > >>> boy, Mike!!!! ;) Well, I guess we should be proud that we have
                    > > such
                    > >> > a demanding group of people.
                    > >> >
                    > >> > So, uhm... how about anything you guys can think of for the
                    more
                    > >> > immediate function I had in mind; some subject that doesn't
                    get
                    > >> > talked about which we can work on in here?
                    > >> >
                    > >> > PMCV
                    > >>
                    > >> How about a discussion of the eternal "now" in a Gnotic context,
                    > >> I'm reading On The Origins of the World, set in the past, yet it
                    > >> seems
                    > > it
                    > >> is all happening now as I read it. I react this way to a lot of
                    the
                    > >> Gnostic scriptures.
                    > >>
                    > >> Regards
                    > >> --
                    > >> Mike Leavitt  ac998_@_lafn._org  remove -'s
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about
                    your
                    > > reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
                    > > scriptures? :-)
                    > >
                    > > Cari
                    >
                    > It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in the
                    > distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on now, in
                    > me., or outside of time altogether.  There is an impact of immedacy,
                    > especially in On The Creation of the World.
                    >
                    > Regards
                    > --
                    > Mike Leavitt  ac998_@_lafn._org  remove -'s
                    >

                    That's interesting, Mike.  Mythology can be powerful.  I'm curious;
                    do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with any
                    characters of the myth?

                    Cari






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                  • lady_caritas
                    ... so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank you, Deby ... Hello, Deby. You can find On the Origin of the World and other Gnostic
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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                      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, deby estephan <nicudle2002@y...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > question please: where do I get a copy of what you are reading from
                      so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank
                      you, Deby
                      >


                      Hello, Deby. You can find "On the Origin of the World" and other
                      Gnostic scriptures at gnosis.org ~
                      http://gnosis.org/naghamm/origin.html

                      Also, a couple books of Gnostic text selections that include this
                      work are _The Nag Hammadi Library_, edited by James M. Robinson, and
                      _The Gnostic Bible_, edited by Barnstone and Meyer.

                      Feel free to jump in conversation anytime, Deby.

                      Cari
                    • Mike Leavitt
                      Hello lady_caritas ... It varries, sometimes the sophia character, sometimes the narrator, sometimes just as an observer. I did identify with the archon
                      Message 10 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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                        Hello lady_caritas

                        On 12/13/05, you wrote:

                        >> It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in the
                        >> distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on now,
                        >> in me., or outside of time altogether. There is an impact of
                        >> immedacy, especially in On The Creation of the World.
                        >>
                        >> Regards
                        >> --
                        >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                        >>
                        >
                        > That's interesting, Mike. Mythology can be powerful. I'm curious;
                        > do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with any
                        > characters of the myth?
                        >
                        > Cari

                        It varries, sometimes the sophia character, sometimes the narrator,
                        sometimes just as an observer. I did identify with the archon
                        Saboath as he was beatified for seeing through his father, but that
                        happened years ago too when I read the Hypostasis of the Archons in
                        NHL.

                        Regards
                        --
                        Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                      • Mike Leavitt
                        Hello deby ... THE GNOSTIC BIBLE Barnstone and Myer/Shamballa is the publisher. A very heavy book in more than one sense of the term. Regards -- Mike Leavitt
                        Message 11 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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                          Hello deby

                          On 12/14/05, you wrote:

                          > question please: where do I get a copy of what you are reading from
                          > so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank
                          > you, Deby

                          THE GNOSTIC BIBLE Barnstone and Myer/Shamballa is the publisher. A
                          very heavy book in more than one sense of the term.

                          Regards
                          --
                          Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                        • pmcvflag
                          Hey all This is a GREAT idea for discussion. I wish I could post more, but this is my last day before my big trip. I just wanted to throw a little fuel in the
                          Message 12 of 18 , Dec 16, 2005
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                            Hey all

                            This is a GREAT idea for discussion. I wish I could post more, but
                            this is my last day before my big trip. I just wanted to throw a
                            little fuel in the tank before I go.

                            I find this intersting in the Gospel of Truth. When it talks about
                            the "Error" and how it disolves into "Truth", sometimes it seems to
                            talk about it as something that will happen, other times as
                            something that already happened. There seems to be an ambiguity
                            between past, present, and future.

                            One could wonder if this is a glitch in the translation, but one
                            could also see this as part of a general perception that the
                            cosmology, soteriology, and eschatology are all one thing to some
                            extent, and they repeat each time an individual comes to understand
                            them. When does the Christ rise? When the psychic is initiated into
                            pneumaticism. When does the error fade? When the Gnostic sees the
                            light of the Father. When does the Kingdom of the Father
                            come? ....... It is before us but man does not see it.

                            Happened, happening, will happen; in the light of an initiatory
                            process the destinction between these tenses may not always be
                            clear... or even important beyond what they mean to the process
                            itself.

                            Maybe you all can think of other specific examples in the texts

                            Ok, that is probably my last post for awhile, so you all take care
                            and have a great holiday season!!! Keep the conversation alive :)

                            PMCV

                            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Hello lady_caritas
                            >
                            > On 12/13/05, you wrote:
                            >
                            > >> It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in
                            the
                            > >> distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on
                            now,
                            > >> in me., or outside of time altogether. There is an impact of
                            > >> immedacy, especially in On The Creation of the World.
                            > >>
                            > >> Regards
                            > >> --
                            > >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                            > >>
                            > >
                            > > That's interesting, Mike. Mythology can be powerful. I'm
                            curious;
                            > > do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with
                            any
                            > > characters of the myth?
                            > >
                            > > Cari
                            >
                            > It varries, sometimes the sophia character, sometimes the narrator,
                            > sometimes just as an observer. I did identify with the archon
                            > Saboath as he was beatified for seeing through his father, but that
                            > happened years ago too when I read the Hypostasis of the Archons in
                            > NHL.
                            >
                            > Regards
                            > --
                            > Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                            >
                          • Mike Leavitt
                            Hello pmcvflag See below. ... Pedantic point, it is origin not creation in the title in the Gnostic Bible. Time is ancy anyway, in eternity it does not exist.
                            Message 13 of 18 , Dec 16, 2005
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                              Hello pmcvflag

                              See below.

                              On 12/16/05, you wrote:

                              > Hey all
                              >
                              > This is a GREAT idea for discussion. I wish I could post more, but
                              > this is my last day before my big trip. I just wanted to throw a
                              > little fuel in the tank before I go.
                              >
                              > I find this intersting in the Gospel of Truth. When it talks about
                              > the "Error" and how it disolves into "Truth", sometimes it seems to
                              > talk about it as something that will happen, other times as
                              > something that already happened. There seems to be an ambiguity
                              > between past, present, and future.
                              >
                              > One could wonder if this is a glitch in the translation, but one
                              > could also see this as part of a general perception that the
                              > cosmology, soteriology, and eschatology are all one thing to some
                              > extent, and they repeat each time an individual comes to understand
                              > them. When does the Christ rise? When the psychic is initiated into
                              > pneumaticism. When does the error fade? When the Gnostic sees the
                              > light of the Father. When does the Kingdom of the Father
                              > come? ....... It is before us but man does not see it.
                              >
                              > Happened, happening, will happen; in the light of an initiatory
                              > process the destinction between these tenses may not always be
                              > clear... or even important beyond what they mean to the process
                              > itself.
                              >
                              > Maybe you all can think of other specific examples in the texts
                              >
                              > Ok, that is probably my last post for awhile, so you all take care
                              > and have a great holiday season!!! Keep the conversation alive :)
                              >
                              > PMCV
                              >
                              > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                              >>
                              >> Hello lady_caritas
                              >>
                              >> On 12/13/05, you wrote:
                              >>
                              >>>> It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in
                              > the
                              >>>> distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on
                              > now,
                              >>>> in me., or outside of time altogether. There is an impact of
                              >>>> immedacy, especially in On The Creation of the World.
                              >>>>
                              >>>> Regards
                              >>>> --
                              >>>> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                              >>>>

                              Pedantic point, it is origin not creation in the title in the Gnostic
                              Bible. Time is ancy anyway, in eternity it does not exist.

                              >>>
                              >>> That's interesting, Mike. Mythology can be powerful. I'm
                              > curious;
                              >>> do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with
                              > any
                              >>> characters of the myth?
                              >>>
                              >>> Cari
                              >>
                              >> It varries, sometimes the sophia character, sometimes the narrator,
                              >> sometimes just as an observer. I did identify with the archon
                              >> Saboath as he was beatified for seeing through his father, but that
                              >> happened years ago too when I read the Hypostasis of the Archons in
                              >> NHL.
                              >>
                              >> Regards
                              >> --
                              >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                              >>
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
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                              Regards
                              --
                              Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
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