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  • pmcvflag
    ... WOW... I think we better examine whether you were THAT good of a boy, Mike!!!! ;) Well, I guess we should be proud that we have such a demanding group of
    Message 1 of 18 , Dec 10, 2005
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      >>And do it with original texts.<<<

      WOW... I think we better examine whether you were THAT good of a
      boy, Mike!!!! ;) Well, I guess we should be proud that we have such
      a demanding group of people.

      So, uhm... how about anything you guys can think of for the more
      immediate function I had in mind; some subject that doesn't get
      talked about which we can work on in here?

      PMCV

      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
      >
      > Hello janahooks
      >
      > On 12/09/05, you wrote:
      >
      > >
      > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...>
      wrote:
      > >>
      > >> If there is one particular subject that you feel is lacking in
      > >> books
      > >> on the subject of historical Gnosticism; what is it? There are
      > >> many
      > >> books out on the subject now. Is there anything that you feel
      just
      > >> doesn't get explained, or get enough attention?
      > >
      > >
      > > Dear Santa,
      > >
      > > I would like to see a comparison of all the different gnostic
      > > sects with glossaries, maps, charts of the emanations per sect,
      and
      > > a shiny fold-out timeline. If this already exists, do tell. If
      not,
      > > I guess I wouldn't mind a pony.
      > >
      > > Sincerely,
      > >
      > > jana
      >
      > And do it with original texts.
      >
      > Regards
      > --
      > Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
      >
    • Mike Leavitt
      Hello pmcvflag ... How about a discussion of the eternal now in a Gnotic context, I m reading On The Origins of the World, set in the past, yet it seems it
      Message 2 of 18 , Dec 10, 2005
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        Hello pmcvflag

        On 12/10/05, you wrote:

        >>> And do it with original texts.<<<
        >
        > WOW... I think we better examine whether you were THAT good of a
        > boy, Mike!!!! ;) Well, I guess we should be proud that we have such
        > a demanding group of people.
        >
        > So, uhm... how about anything you guys can think of for the more
        > immediate function I had in mind; some subject that doesn't get
        > talked about which we can work on in here?
        >
        > PMCV

        How about a discussion of the eternal "now" in a Gnotic context, I'm
        reading On The Origins of the World, set in the past, yet it seems it
        is all happening now as I read it. I react this way to a lot of the
        Gnostic scriptures.

        Regards
        --
        Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
      • lady_caritas
        ... such ... it ... Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about your reactions of the eternal now derived from reading Gnostic
        Message 3 of 18 , Dec 12, 2005
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          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
          >
          > Hello pmcvflag
          >
          > On 12/10/05, you wrote:
          >
          > >>> And do it with original texts.<<<
          > >
          > > WOW... I think we better examine whether you were THAT good of a
          > > boy, Mike!!!! ;) Well, I guess we should be proud that we have
          such
          > > a demanding group of people.
          > >
          > > So, uhm... how about anything you guys can think of for the more
          > > immediate function I had in mind; some subject that doesn't get
          > > talked about which we can work on in here?
          > >
          > > PMCV
          >
          > How about a discussion of the eternal "now" in a Gnotic context, I'm
          > reading On The Origins of the World, set in the past, yet it seems
          it
          > is all happening now as I read it. I react this way to a lot of the
          > Gnostic scriptures.
          >
          > Regards
          > --
          > Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
          >


          Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about your
          reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
          scriptures? :-)

          Cari
        • janahooks
          Mike & Lady C., ... Wait for the slow one to catch up...what s the eternal now ? Is this something I can look up, or is the term a Mike-ism? :) jana
          Message 4 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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            Mike & Lady C.,

            > Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about your
            > reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
            > scriptures? :-)

            Wait for the slow one to catch up...what's the "eternal now"? Is this
            something I can look up, or is the term a Mike-ism? :)

            jana
          • Mike Leavitt
            Hello lady_caritas ... It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in the distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on now, in
            Message 5 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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              Hello lady_caritas

              On 12/13/05, you wrote:

              > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
              >>
              >> Hello pmcvflag
              >>
              >> On 12/10/05, you wrote:
              >>
              >>>>> And do it with original texts.<<<
              >>>
              >>> WOW... I think we better examine whether you were THAT good of a
              >>> boy, Mike!!!! ;) Well, I guess we should be proud that we have
              > such
              >> > a demanding group of people.
              >> >
              >> > So, uhm... how about anything you guys can think of for the more
              >> > immediate function I had in mind; some subject that doesn't get
              >> > talked about which we can work on in here?
              >> >
              >> > PMCV
              >>
              >> How about a discussion of the eternal "now" in a Gnotic context,
              >> I'm reading On The Origins of the World, set in the past, yet it
              >> seems
              > it
              >> is all happening now as I read it. I react this way to a lot of the
              >> Gnostic scriptures.
              >>
              >> Regards
              >> --
              >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
              >>
              >
              >
              > Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about your
              > reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
              > scriptures? :-)
              >
              > Cari

              It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in the
              distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on now, in
              me., or outside of time altogether. There is an impact of immedacy,
              especially in On The Creation of the World.

              Regards
              --
              Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
            • Mike Leavitt
              Hello janahooks ... It is a philosophical term, and you should be able to look it up, simply it is the idea that the only reality is now, and that the past and
              Message 6 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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                Hello janahooks

                On 12/13/05, you wrote:

                > Mike & Lady C.,
                >
                >> Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about your
                >> reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
                >> scriptures? :-)
                >
                > Wait for the slow one to catch up...what's the "eternal now"? Is
                > this something I can look up, or is the term a Mike-ism? :)
                >
                > jana

                It is a philosophical term, and you should be able to look it up,
                simply it is the idea that the only reality is now, and that the past
                and future really do not exist as such, only as concepts. I hope I
                got that right.

                Regards
                --
                Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
              • lady_caritas
                ... your ... past ... Hi, Mike, jana... The Neoplatonist Plotinus used this concept. The eternal now transcends the temporal world of change, if I remember
                Message 7 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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                  --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Hello janahooks
                  >
                  > On 12/13/05, you wrote:
                  >
                  > > Mike & Lady C.,
                  > >
                  > >> Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about
                  your
                  > >> reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
                  > >> scriptures? :-)
                  > >
                  > > Wait for the slow one to catch up...what's the "eternal now"? Is
                  > > this something I can look up, or is the term a Mike-ism? :)
                  > >
                  > > jana
                  >
                  > It is a philosophical term, and you should be able to look it up,
                  > simply it is the idea that the only reality is now, and that the
                  past
                  > and future really do not exist as such, only as concepts. I hope I
                  > got that right.
                  >
                  > Regards
                  > --
                  > Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                  >

                  Hi, Mike, jana... The Neoplatonist Plotinus used this concept.
                  The "eternal now" transcends the temporal world of change, if I
                  remember correctly.

                  Cari
                • lady_caritas
                  ... more ... get ... the ... your ... That s interesting, Mike. Mythology can be powerful. I m curious; do you experience this as an observer or do you
                  Message 8 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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                    --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Hello lady_caritas
                    >
                    > On 12/13/05, you wrote:
                    >
                    > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...>
                    wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >> Hello pmcvflag
                    > >>
                    > >> On 12/10/05, you wrote:
                    > >>
                    > >>>>> And do it with original texts.<<<
                    > >>>
                    > >>> WOW... I think we better examine whether you were THAT good of a
                    > >>> boy, Mike!!!! ;) Well, I guess we should be proud that we have
                    > > such
                    > >> > a demanding group of people.
                    > >> >
                    > >> > So, uhm... how about anything you guys can think of for the
                    more
                    > >> > immediate function I had in mind; some subject that doesn't
                    get
                    > >> > talked about which we can work on in here?
                    > >> >
                    > >> > PMCV
                    > >>
                    > >> How about a discussion of the eternal "now" in a Gnotic context,
                    > >> I'm reading On The Origins of the World, set in the past, yet it
                    > >> seems
                    > > it
                    > >> is all happening now as I read it. I react this way to a lot of
                    the
                    > >> Gnostic scriptures.
                    > >>
                    > >> Regards
                    > >> --
                    > >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                    > >>
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about
                    your
                    > > reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
                    > > scriptures? :-)
                    > >
                    > > Cari
                    >
                    > It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in the
                    > distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on now, in
                    > me., or outside of time altogether. There is an impact of immedacy,
                    > especially in On The Creation of the World.
                    >
                    > Regards
                    > --
                    > Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                    >

                    That's interesting, Mike. Mythology can be powerful. I'm curious;
                    do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with any
                    characters of the myth?

                    Cari
                  • deby estephan
                    question please: where do I get a copy of what you are reading from so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank you, Deby ... more ...
                    Message 9 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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                      question please: where do I get a copy of what you are reading from so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank you, Deby

                      lady_caritas <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Hello lady_caritas
                      >
                      > On 12/13/05, you wrote:
                      >
                      > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...>
                      wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >> Hello pmcvflag
                      > >>
                      > >> On 12/10/05, you wrote:
                      > >>
                      > >>>>> And do it with original texts.<<<
                      > >>>
                      > >>> WOW... I think we better examine whether you were THAT good of a
                      > >>> boy, Mike!!!! ;) Well, I guess we should be proud that we have
                      > > such
                      > >> > a demanding group of people.
                      > >> >
                      > >> > So, uhm... how about anything you guys can think of for the
                      more
                      > >> > immediate function I had in mind; some subject that doesn't
                      get
                      > >> > talked about which we can work on in here?
                      > >> >
                      > >> > PMCV
                      > >>
                      > >> How about a discussion of the eternal "now" in a Gnotic context,
                      > >> I'm reading On The Origins of the World, set in the past, yet it
                      > >> seems
                      > > it
                      > >> is all happening now as I read it. I react this way to a lot of
                      the
                      > >> Gnostic scriptures.
                      > >>
                      > >> Regards
                      > >> --
                      > >> Mike Leavitt  ac998_@_lafn._org  remove -'s
                      > >>
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > Lead on, Mike. So, what thoughts would you like to share about
                      your
                      > > reactions of the "eternal now" derived from reading Gnostic
                      > > scriptures? :-)
                      > >
                      > > Cari
                      >
                      > It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in the
                      > distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on now, in
                      > me., or outside of time altogether.  There is an impact of immedacy,
                      > especially in On The Creation of the World.
                      >
                      > Regards
                      > --
                      > Mike Leavitt  ac998_@_lafn._org  remove -'s
                      >

                      That's interesting, Mike.  Mythology can be powerful.  I'm curious;
                      do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with any
                      characters of the myth?

                      Cari






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                    • lady_caritas
                      ... so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank you, Deby ... Hello, Deby. You can find On the Origin of the World and other Gnostic
                      Message 10 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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                        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, deby estephan <nicudle2002@y...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > question please: where do I get a copy of what you are reading from
                        so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank
                        you, Deby
                        >


                        Hello, Deby. You can find "On the Origin of the World" and other
                        Gnostic scriptures at gnosis.org ~
                        http://gnosis.org/naghamm/origin.html

                        Also, a couple books of Gnostic text selections that include this
                        work are _The Nag Hammadi Library_, edited by James M. Robinson, and
                        _The Gnostic Bible_, edited by Barnstone and Meyer.

                        Feel free to jump in conversation anytime, Deby.

                        Cari
                      • Mike Leavitt
                        Hello lady_caritas ... It varries, sometimes the sophia character, sometimes the narrator, sometimes just as an observer. I did identify with the archon
                        Message 11 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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                          Hello lady_caritas

                          On 12/13/05, you wrote:

                          >> It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in the
                          >> distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on now,
                          >> in me., or outside of time altogether. There is an impact of
                          >> immedacy, especially in On The Creation of the World.
                          >>
                          >> Regards
                          >> --
                          >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                          >>
                          >
                          > That's interesting, Mike. Mythology can be powerful. I'm curious;
                          > do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with any
                          > characters of the myth?
                          >
                          > Cari

                          It varries, sometimes the sophia character, sometimes the narrator,
                          sometimes just as an observer. I did identify with the archon
                          Saboath as he was beatified for seeing through his father, but that
                          happened years ago too when I read the Hypostasis of the Archons in
                          NHL.

                          Regards
                          --
                          Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                        • Mike Leavitt
                          Hello deby ... THE GNOSTIC BIBLE Barnstone and Myer/Shamballa is the publisher. A very heavy book in more than one sense of the term. Regards -- Mike Leavitt
                          Message 12 of 18 , Dec 13, 2005
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                            Hello deby

                            On 12/14/05, you wrote:

                            > question please: where do I get a copy of what you are reading from
                            > so I too can be included in the group discussions please....thank
                            > you, Deby

                            THE GNOSTIC BIBLE Barnstone and Myer/Shamballa is the publisher. A
                            very heavy book in more than one sense of the term.

                            Regards
                            --
                            Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                          • pmcvflag
                            Hey all This is a GREAT idea for discussion. I wish I could post more, but this is my last day before my big trip. I just wanted to throw a little fuel in the
                            Message 13 of 18 , Dec 16, 2005
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                              Hey all

                              This is a GREAT idea for discussion. I wish I could post more, but
                              this is my last day before my big trip. I just wanted to throw a
                              little fuel in the tank before I go.

                              I find this intersting in the Gospel of Truth. When it talks about
                              the "Error" and how it disolves into "Truth", sometimes it seems to
                              talk about it as something that will happen, other times as
                              something that already happened. There seems to be an ambiguity
                              between past, present, and future.

                              One could wonder if this is a glitch in the translation, but one
                              could also see this as part of a general perception that the
                              cosmology, soteriology, and eschatology are all one thing to some
                              extent, and they repeat each time an individual comes to understand
                              them. When does the Christ rise? When the psychic is initiated into
                              pneumaticism. When does the error fade? When the Gnostic sees the
                              light of the Father. When does the Kingdom of the Father
                              come? ....... It is before us but man does not see it.

                              Happened, happening, will happen; in the light of an initiatory
                              process the destinction between these tenses may not always be
                              clear... or even important beyond what they mean to the process
                              itself.

                              Maybe you all can think of other specific examples in the texts

                              Ok, that is probably my last post for awhile, so you all take care
                              and have a great holiday season!!! Keep the conversation alive :)

                              PMCV

                              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Hello lady_caritas
                              >
                              > On 12/13/05, you wrote:
                              >
                              > >> It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in
                              the
                              > >> distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on
                              now,
                              > >> in me., or outside of time altogether. There is an impact of
                              > >> immedacy, especially in On The Creation of the World.
                              > >>
                              > >> Regards
                              > >> --
                              > >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                              > >>
                              > >
                              > > That's interesting, Mike. Mythology can be powerful. I'm
                              curious;
                              > > do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with
                              any
                              > > characters of the myth?
                              > >
                              > > Cari
                              >
                              > It varries, sometimes the sophia character, sometimes the narrator,
                              > sometimes just as an observer. I did identify with the archon
                              > Saboath as he was beatified for seeing through his father, but that
                              > happened years ago too when I read the Hypostasis of the Archons in
                              > NHL.
                              >
                              > Regards
                              > --
                              > Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                              >
                            • Mike Leavitt
                              Hello pmcvflag See below. ... Pedantic point, it is origin not creation in the title in the Gnostic Bible. Time is ancy anyway, in eternity it does not exist.
                              Message 14 of 18 , Dec 16, 2005
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                                Hello pmcvflag

                                See below.

                                On 12/16/05, you wrote:

                                > Hey all
                                >
                                > This is a GREAT idea for discussion. I wish I could post more, but
                                > this is my last day before my big trip. I just wanted to throw a
                                > little fuel in the tank before I go.
                                >
                                > I find this intersting in the Gospel of Truth. When it talks about
                                > the "Error" and how it disolves into "Truth", sometimes it seems to
                                > talk about it as something that will happen, other times as
                                > something that already happened. There seems to be an ambiguity
                                > between past, present, and future.
                                >
                                > One could wonder if this is a glitch in the translation, but one
                                > could also see this as part of a general perception that the
                                > cosmology, soteriology, and eschatology are all one thing to some
                                > extent, and they repeat each time an individual comes to understand
                                > them. When does the Christ rise? When the psychic is initiated into
                                > pneumaticism. When does the error fade? When the Gnostic sees the
                                > light of the Father. When does the Kingdom of the Father
                                > come? ....... It is before us but man does not see it.
                                >
                                > Happened, happening, will happen; in the light of an initiatory
                                > process the destinction between these tenses may not always be
                                > clear... or even important beyond what they mean to the process
                                > itself.
                                >
                                > Maybe you all can think of other specific examples in the texts
                                >
                                > Ok, that is probably my last post for awhile, so you all take care
                                > and have a great holiday season!!! Keep the conversation alive :)
                                >
                                > PMCV
                                >
                                > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
                                >>
                                >> Hello lady_caritas
                                >>
                                >> On 12/13/05, you wrote:
                                >>
                                >>>> It is a general reaction, sometimes the creation myths seem in
                                > the
                                >>>> distant past, but sometimes they seem like they are going on
                                > now,
                                >>>> in me., or outside of time altogether. There is an impact of
                                >>>> immedacy, especially in On The Creation of the World.
                                >>>>
                                >>>> Regards
                                >>>> --
                                >>>> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                                >>>>

                                Pedantic point, it is origin not creation in the title in the Gnostic
                                Bible. Time is ancy anyway, in eternity it does not exist.

                                >>>
                                >>> That's interesting, Mike. Mythology can be powerful. I'm
                                > curious;
                                >>> do you experience this as an observer or do you identify with
                                > any
                                >>> characters of the myth?
                                >>>
                                >>> Cari
                                >>
                                >> It varries, sometimes the sophia character, sometimes the narrator,
                                >> sometimes just as an observer. I did identify with the archon
                                >> Saboath as he was beatified for seeing through his father, but that
                                >> happened years ago too when I read the Hypostasis of the Archons in
                                >> NHL.
                                >>
                                >> Regards
                                >> --
                                >> Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
                                >>
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
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                                Regards
                                --
                                Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
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