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Re: [Gnosticism2] Re: another newbie

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  • Tsharpmin7@aol.com
    In a message dated 12/3/2005 10:07:37 PM Central Standard Time, no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes: Hey Crispin ... Glad you have been doing well. ... a
    Message 1 of 27 , Dec 5, 2005
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      In a message dated 12/3/2005 10:07:37 PM Central Standard Time, no_reply@yahoogroups.com writes:
      Hey Crispin

      >>>hi PMCV... i've been away for a while and had a wonderful time.<<<

      Glad you have been doing well.

      >>>>just wanted to poke my head into the room and say i think this is
      a marvelous reply you've written to Ben.  anyone can assume or imitate
      the trappings of Gnosticism, speak the lingo, etc., but i fear most
      would tuck tail and run if they believed they were required to excel
      at some other higher learning such as science or math.<<<

      I hope that did not come off as any kind of valuation... not for Ben
      or for any other group. There are many today who feel that critical
      learning (I will specifically avoid the term "Higher Learning") is
      somehow not spiritual. Whether or not that is true, I think that is
      not an accurate understanding of the intent of the historical
      Gnostics. Ben has NOT specifically stated his agreement with that
      sentiment, and I have already apologized for perhaps implying that he
      had (unintentionally). The only point I intend is that the anti-
      intellectual stance that SOME people feel is not a Gnostic belief.

      >>>like children playing house, its a very unrealistic understanding
      of what the actual requirements and necessities of maintaining a
      family and household.  so let the children play and have their
      entertainment.  those who mature, mature; those who don't, don't. 
      this is nothing new.<<<

      Well, I will leave my own stories of "Playing House" to the other
      group *lol*. I will leave the implications to the exploration of
      Civilitas and Libido, rather than Gnosticism. Still, I understand your
      point.... and I think it is one that is supported in the Gnostic texts.

      PMCV
      hi PMCV.... i am doing well, thank you.  i still have both of my legs,
      and just returned from a long vacation with my lovely wife: the first chance I've had to spend any significant time out of house or hospital since my accident.  i feel thoroughly rejuvenated and am actually looking forward to my next round in the torture chamber (rehab).
       
      as to your concerns, no, I had no specific individual (certainly not Ben) or group in mind unless you care to aggregate the following as a single group:  those who seek esoterica for entertainment, for solace, for emotional stimulation or in order to be perceived as unique or a rebel. 
       
      my post was in part a caveat for those who seem to imagine the ancient Gnostics received a free lunch, i.e., something for nothing.  i think we have all encountered individuals who imagine they can attain to some form of life altering gnosis on their own through pure intellect or passion yet disdain the idea of hard work and guidance, and this in turn they sometimes project backward in time to the Gnostics of old.  it appears to be a unique but anachronistic juxtaposition of mysticism and the American love affair with the self-made man and rugged individualism:  Jesus with spurs and a cowboy hat (of course there are those whose belief system assumes enlightenment as a sort of historical inevitability through reincarnation and, while i don't subscribe to that particular belief, i am respectful of it and mean no offense to those who hold it to be true).
       
      but mainly i just wanted to express my appreciation to you for reminding all of us that for many of the original Gnostics rigorous study was often a sort of prerequisite for admittance.  i personally believe they wanted the best and brightest and academic excellence helps to separate the wheat from the chaff.  i don't see this as snobbery so much as a recognition on the part of the Gnostics that not everybody who shows up at the door has the current capacity to receive what they offered.  this is simply being sober and realistic.  nothing elitist about it, despite the charges of some Christian apologists that that was precisely what they were.  surely nobody with a clue would call medical schools elitists for maintaining their entrance requirements.  if one thinks of the Gnostics as physicians of the pneuma i think we get a better appreciation of what it took to join their ranks.
       
      Your refreshed friend,
       
      Crispin Sainte III
       
       
    • angela jones
      Interesting, do you feel fulfilled and whole because of your knowledge? ... Yahoo! Personals Single? There s someone we d like you to meet. Lots of someones,
      Message 2 of 27 , Dec 6, 2005
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        Interesting, do you feel fulfilled and 'whole' because of your knowledge?
         


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      • Tsharpmin7@aol.com
        In a message dated 12/6/2005 8:29:41 AM Central Standard Time, angelanjones2003@yahoo.com writes: Interesting, do you feel fulfilled and whole because of
        Message 3 of 27 , Dec 7, 2005
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          In a message dated 12/6/2005 8:29:41 AM Central Standard Time, angelanjones2003@... writes:
          Interesting, do you feel fulfilled and 'whole' because of your knowledge
          Hi Angela, I think knowledge is a tool that can be wielded
          wisely or not. I am fulfilled at one level by my educational
          accomplishments (isn't it always fulfilling when we achieve 
          a difficult goal thorough our own tenacity and sweat), but
          it has little or no bearing at other levels of my existence.
           
          I experience wholeness when I love, how about you?
           
          Your friend,
           
          Crispin Sainte III
        • pmcvflag
          Angela I can t speak for any of the others here. My first inclination was to think that this is off topic here, but in reality there is something about the
          Message 4 of 27 , Dec 7, 2005
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            Angela

            I can't speak for any of the others here. My first inclination was to
            think that this is off topic here, but in reality there is something
            about the conversation that is on mark, and something we must all deal
            with.

            Have you read Plato by any chance? Plato draws a line between
            different kinds of happiness and fulfilment, as well as different
            kinds of unhappiness. Lets think about this for a moment. What is is
            you need to be fulfilled?

            It is possible for a person to be unhappy with the direct day to day
            reality of thier lives, while being quite content deep down inside. On
            the other hand, it is possible for a person who seems to have
            everything to be quite unhappy.According to Plato (and I agree) the
            true deeper happiness comes from an understanding, a realization of
            yourself in your life within this cosmos.

            I don't meant to degrage the conversation by using an example from
            popular media, but I thought that perhaps this trite example frome the
            movie "Matrix" could help illustrate the point. The hero of the movie
            is driven to know, to gain the truth. He has his regrets, but it is
            his deep desire. On the other hand, one of the team he is in only
            wants the direct happiness of his prior experience. Which one do you
            think is deeper and truer?

            PMCV

            --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, angela jones
            <angelanjones2003@y...> wrote:
            >
            > Interesting, do you feel fulfilled and 'whole' because of your
            knowledge?
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ---------------------------------
            > Yahoo! Personals
            > Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet.
            > Lots of someones, actually. Yahoo! Personals
            >
          • angela jones
            Hi, thanx for writing, no haven t had the chance to look into Plato yet. In answer to yr question below I have to say, both points are interesting & I feel my
            Message 5 of 27 , Jan 12, 2006
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              Hi, thanx for writing, no haven't had the chance to look into Plato yet. In answer to yr question below I have to say, both points are interesting & I feel my levels of existing need to be heightened then I won't feel so bad at times Yet perhaps 'the highs' won't be so high!
              I know emotion isn't so much an element of spirituality. So in time, I will just BE. Being in the here and now though is difficult as us Humans are just so complex! 

              is driven to know, to gain the truth. He has his regrets, but it is
              his deep desire. On the other hand, one of the team he is in only
              wants the direct happiness of his prior experience. Which one do you
              think is deeper and truer?

              PMCV

              --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, angela jones
              <angelanjones2003@y...> wrote:
              >
              > Interesting, do you feel fulfilled and 'whole' because of your
              knowledge?
              >   
              >  
              >
              >            
              > ---------------------------------
              >  Yahoo! Personals
              >  Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet.
              >  Lots of someones, actually. Yahoo! Personals
              >






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