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Re: gnosticism and the end of time

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  • pmcvflag
    Hello Bakn4 ... mountains, and I m sure I ve heard that there is a date mentioned in the pistis sophia,but I haven t checked this out.
    Message 1 of 10 , Nov 4, 2005
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      Hello Bakn4

      >>>Master sameal aun woer writes about this time in his book the three
      mountains, and I'm sure I've heard that there is a date mentioned in
      the pistis sophia,but I haven't checked this out.<<<

      I don't recall this in the Pistis Sophia, but it has been some time
      since I read it. It would seem out of place considering the other
      teachings in the book.

      As for Samael.... this group deals only with Gnosticism, and Samael
      does not technically fit that category. In other words, he is off
      topic here.

      PMCV
    • Lincoln S.
      ... that the ... overcome ... time ... ancient ... of ... Please, if anyone knows more about the fire that lurks within the world and/or the teachings of
      Message 2 of 10 , Nov 5, 2005
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        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, lady_caritas <no_reply@y...>
        wrote:

        > In Ptolemy's Version of the Gnostic Myth, there is mention
        that "the
        > fire that lurks within the world will flare up, catch fire,
        overcome
        > all matter, be consumed along with it, and enter into definitive
        > nonexistence." Bentley Layton notes in his book, _The Gnostic
        > Scriptures," p. 295:
        > "f. The idea of a fire that lurks within the world and in due
        time
        > will flare up and consume the world was a well-known part of
        ancient
        > physics, as taught by the Stoic school. But the belief that the
        > world will then `enter into definitive nonexistence' is not a part
        of
        > the Stoic physics."
        >
        > Perhaps other members might have additional information.
        >
        > Cari
        >

        Please, if anyone knows more about the "fire that lurks within the
        world" and/or the teachings of the Stoic school in this regard I am
        very interested. Thanks.

        Lincoln
      • lady_caritas
        ... part ... Lincoln, I can give you a link explaining a bit more about Stoic physics: http://www.iep.utm.edu/s/stoicism.htm#H3 Please keep in mind though that
        Message 3 of 10 , Nov 7, 2005
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          --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Lincoln S." <doubtfull_one@y...>
          wrote:
          >
          > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, lady_caritas <no_reply@y...>
          > wrote:
          >
          > > In Ptolemy's Version of the Gnostic Myth, there is mention
          > that "the
          > > fire that lurks within the world will flare up, catch fire,
          > overcome
          > > all matter, be consumed along with it, and enter into definitive
          > > nonexistence." Bentley Layton notes in his book, _The Gnostic
          > > Scriptures," p. 295:
          > > "f. The idea of a fire that lurks within the world and in due
          > time
          > > will flare up and consume the world was a well-known part of
          > ancient
          > > physics, as taught by the Stoic school. But the belief that the
          > > world will then `enter into definitive nonexistence' is not a
          part
          > of
          > > the Stoic physics."
          > >
          > > Perhaps other members might have additional information.
          > >
          > > Cari
          > >
          >
          > Please, if anyone knows more about the "fire that lurks within the
          > world" and/or the teachings of the Stoic school in this regard I am
          > very interested. Thanks.
          >
          > Lincoln
          >


          Lincoln, I can give you a link explaining a bit more about Stoic
          physics:
          http://www.iep.utm.edu/s/stoicism.htm#H3

          Please keep in mind though that the Stoics were materialists, which
          the Gnostics definitely were *NOT*. The Stoics believed in
          successive cycles of this fiery destruction and recovery, whereas
          Bentley Layton's footnote describes a conflagration of the world into
          NONexistence (according to Irenaeus's summary of Ptolemy's Version of
          the Gnostic Myth).

          I'm curious Lincoln as to the background for your interest in end
          time matters?

          Cari
        • Ben
          Here s something I worte to another group: I thought Kaplan used past and future for Kether and Malkuth.....its been a while... but um there are 7
          Message 4 of 10 , Nov 8, 2005
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            Here's something I worte to another group:

            I thought Kaplan used past and future for Kether and Malkuth.....its
            been a while...
            but um there are 7 directions...... forward backward..left right up
            down and within.....

            7 days. of creation...7 stages of alchemy (visita interiora terrae
            rectificando invenies occultum lapidem)..7 spheres before the
            supernal triangle....etc.....

            Now kaplan also discusses Oroboros..does he not....
            the end is the beginning is the end.....

            he states 2 polar opposites...lets say kether and malkuth.....lets
            call them past(kether) future(malkuth).....now if these were 2
            imaginary points...polar opposites..that stretch out for infinity in
            opposite dirtections...kaplan states they reach a point of
            infinity...and eventually come back upon them selves...and meet..
            (this is modern maths.....pardon my ignorance I'm just saying what
            kaplan said).....thus the end is the beginning is the end......Indeed
            some forms of kabbalah teach that kether is closer to malkuth than it
            is to chockmah.......

            this fits in nicely with many ideas such a hindu and buddhist thought
            that states the end is indeed the beginning.....we can also see this
            in western esoteric thought....the divine trinity of creation
            destruction and redemtion.....which is the same as the Rosicrucian
            trinity of
            "Ex Deo nascimur.

            In Jesu Morimur

            Per Spiritum Sanctum reviviscimus."

            We are born in God...we die in Christ and are reborn in the Holy
            SPirit.......

            so creation destruction redemption is again much like the kabbalist
            (and many others) idea of a return to a better state.....the end is
            the beginning is the end....

            this also fits in with 1 modern alternative to the standard big bang
            idea that states such as I have said
            above....creation....destruction...creation...an endless cycle....

            No one had raised this point...so I thought I would....

            --Ben

            Well....here are some thoughts....

            Many people like to see the tree as Linear.....as you say from A to T
            or O to Z or whatever.....I think this is wrong....
            Clearly if we look at Phi or the image of Oroboros we see that things
            are not linear...indeed one modern magician/kabbalist states time is
            a spiral and this explains why "distant past" is closer to the
            present than the future.....and thus this is why it is "easy" to
            contact the distant past in meditation/magic etc (sadly you really
            need to see the diagram to conceive of this
            fully...probably).....many kabbalaists also assert that the tree is
            not linear....

            How does this relate to kabbalah?.....well the tree can be seen in
            many ways....the standard linear model familiar to us......the
            Lurianic "modern" tree and the "hermetic tree" are but one way to
            picture the tree....as you probably know.....I even have a diagram of
            the tree as a 5 pointed star at home.....but anyway...in Judaic
            kabbalah the tree has been shown as 1 big circle with concentric
            circles within it......so we have one big circle with lesser circles
            within it.....

            Now on another post someone mentioned the fractal nature of the
            tree......so the tree is not 2d.....frankly is a sphere 2
            dimensional? no...the plan is 2d(due to the limitation of the printed
            page)....but in reality the tree is not flat.....so what if we
            picture the tree as one sphere......one coherant sphere ....then like
            a fractal within the sphere we have the standard lurianic or hermetic
            trees......much like a fractal...zooming in for greater detail...and
            then of course each of the 10 within the original 1 can be zoomed in
            upon.....

            Now what does this have to do with the beginning is the end is the
            beginning? Well a sphere and a circle have no end........and no
            beginning...they just are.....much like the earth is not
            flat.......its a sphere...if it had an end we'd fall off (forgetting
            gravity etc for a second)........

            Now in Christian Kabbalah at least (I know this isnt valid for all
            forms) the tree is seen as an imperfect tree

            (the kircher tree... http://www.digital-
            brilliance.com/kab/kircher.gif the blanced pre fall tree is the Gra
            tree http://www.tarot.org.il/Images/GRA_ToL.png )

            the tree after the falll.....originally malkuth was where daath was
            (ending our YHVH quaterinty of kether chockmah and binah...flame oil
            lamp...illumined)thus the "great work" is to make malkuth go back to
            where it originally was.....daath....

            but essentially thats what I meant by creation destruction
            redemption.....

            eden...(creation) perfect state.........the fall (where we are
            now..some would argue we are still falling)....redemptiona climg back
            out of the fall back to eden.......thus the end is the beginning is
            the end...

            from womb to tomb to womb....

            --
            He who knows both knowledge and ignorance together, crosses death
            through ignorance and attains immortality through knowledge.
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