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Re: Ghosts

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  • pmcvflag
    Hey Arlene and Jenny Well, one thing that may give us some trouble is the term Ghost itself. As Mike points out, it is kind of hard to fully put the Gnostic
    Message 1 of 61 , Aug 10, 2005
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      Hey Arlene and Jenny

      Well, one thing that may give us some trouble is the term "Ghost"
      itself. As Mike points out, it is kind of hard to fully put the
      Gnostic idea of spiritual existance into the concept. Let me
      illustrate....

      In the historical Gnostic systems we generally see a difference
      between a sort of "soul" and a "spirit". Arlene points out a
      feminine spirit, but let me make a mild ajustment here, in the usual
      model the spirit is male, and the soul is female (and of course this
      is allegorical). The spirit and the soul are equated not only with
      different functions in the salvational role, but also different
      cosmological sources (Logos and Sophia, for instance).

      As Gerry pointed out recently, Gnostic sources often don't have a
      very positive view of the notion of "Ghosts", but neither do they
      make it impossible. Part of the real question would be.... what
      happens to the person after death? Instead of just listing some
      sources, I thought I would just offer that and see where
      conversation goes.

      PMCV

      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, arlene anjum <koalaKards@y...>
      wrote:
      > Yes I wonder that too. Holy Ghost and Holy Spirit.
      >
      > The whole Trinity. In the Gnostic Gospels by Pagel..the Spirit is
      actually Feminine in nature. I want to say Valentinius I don't have
      my book with me in the office so I can't say for sure.
      >
      > Personally I feel that somewhere there has to be a feminine
      divine. Why not a feminine spirit? Otherwise why then did God bother
      creating women altogether. Eve from Adam's rib and Adam is made in
      the image of God then God must be androgynous or hermaphroditc or
      asexual no? The more I read about Christianity, the more confused I
      get. All these creeds, The Apostles Creed the Nicene Creed blabbly
      blah..are so political in order to gain control over the masses I
      really wonder if there is any spirituality left in Christianity?
      Sorry for digressing..AA
      >
      > JennyG <aurum@t...> wrote:
      > >Hi PMCV:
      >
      > I was wondering how the gnostics of the early Christian era C.E.
      50 or
      > earlier viewed Ghosts. To me ghosts are the spirits of the
      deceased that
      > either died tragic deaths, or those who passed but are in denial
      about their
      > own mortality so they hang around on the earthly plane just on a
      different
      > frequency than the human eye and ear can pick up (unless your a
      sensitive
      > /psychic)..Arlene <
      >
      >
      > Hello Everyone,
      >
      > I joined recently having met Karl in another group, I am not sure
      what type
      > of discussions you have here, but I thought I would jump in on
      this one.
      > Good question Arlene, I look forward to hearing some replies. I
      am not
      > very scholarly or learned on The Gnostic texts so I will just
      lurk quietly,
      > if no one minds.
      > On this topic though I just want to say that I wonder why some
      of the
      > Churches called the Holy Spirit, "Holy Ghost. I remember as a
      child in
      > the Anglican Orphanage that I was terrified of the Holy Ghost. We
      had heard
      > the usual childhood stories of ghosts as scary spectral beings
      haunting the
      > living. It was only later in my RC phase when it
      became "Spiritus
      > Sanctus" that I could relax and stop looking over my shoulder :)
      >
      > Jenny
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
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    • Mike Leavitt
      Hello lady_caritas ... I can t give you citations, but some of the writings specifically say if you don t make it you are turned back to earth. I read such a
      Message 61 of 61 , Aug 12, 2005
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        Hello lady_caritas

        On 08/12/05, you wrote:

        > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "janahooks" <janahooks@y...>
        > wrote:
        >> Hello, Mike.
        >>
        >>> Well the theosophists would say (recasting their termanalogy into
        >>> gnostic) that at death only the portion of soul useful to the
        > spirit
        >>> is saved, the rest is left to decay.
        >>
        >> Now, that's something to think about: what part of my soul is
        > *useful*
        >> to my spirit? I might not sleep if I think about that. ;)
        >>
        >> jana
        >
        >
        > Say, Mike, to tie in Plotinus and the Enneads that Steve brought up,
        > I didn't know that Plotinus was a "Great Theosophist." ;-) lol Per:
        > http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting/plotinus.html
        >
        > Anyway, if you scroll about halfway down the page linked above,
        > Plotinus and Porphyry, have a dialogue about the soul.
        >
        > Plotinus: "Every soul has a lower part turned toward the body, and a
        > higher part turned toward the divine intelligence."
        >
        >
        > Anyone want to comment about how the Gnostics viewed "soul" and its
        > relation to death? (Are we just talking about physical death here?)
        > The Gnostics seemed to be more preoccupied with cosmogony,...
        > beginnings, origins, reunification, as I believe Gerry pointed out
        > earlier. Do the Gnostics have anything to specifically say about
        > reincarnation, or not?
        >
        > Cari

        I can't give you citations, but some of the writings specifically say
        if you don't make it you are turned back to earth. I read such a
        passage here just a few weeks ago. May have been Phillip, but I
        can't remember. No idea of karma there though.

        Regards
        --
        Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
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