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Re: Ghosts

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  • pmcvflag
    Gerry... I like the term Gnosis Envy the more it gains context. The fact is, there are so many people out there who have some kind of guru complex, and who
    Message 1 of 61 , Aug 4, 2005
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      Gerry...

      I like the term "Gnosis Envy" the more it gains context. The fact
      is, there are so many people out there who have some kind of guru
      complex, and who are so ready to redifine "Gnosis" to mean anything
      they already have in exclusion to the entire meaning of the term ina
      a traditional context. If they hate the "Chruch" then "Gnosis"
      itself becomes about hating "orthodoxy", blah blah blah.

      It is all the worse when these people claim to have actually read
      the traditional Gnostic sources, and seem to have missed the point
      so far.

      Oh well.

      PMCV

      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Gerry" <gerryhsp@y...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > >
      > > [...]
      > > The seperation from the spirit, the hylic notion of the world
      from
      > > only a subjective and perceptual basis, is something that is the
      > > core idea that Gnosticism is meant to fight against. Waking up
      from
      > > the mere subjectivity into a larger objective perspective is a
      > > constant theme. Yes, it is true that there is also the
      admonition
      > > to look inward, but that look inside is meant to be a search for
      > > the connection to something beyond the self.
      > >
      >
      >
      >
      > You used two words there that I meant to include in my last post,
      but
      > from a different slant. Thanks for reminding me!
      >
      > I was perplexed from the beginning when Felix brought up his
      musings
      > about Protestantism. As I tried to point out with the film
      example,
      > both Catholicism and Protestantism are still pistic religions, so,
      > regardless of the differences we note between them, what kind of
      > pertinent "connection" are we drawing with regards to Gnosticism?
      > Even allowing for the trends that Bloom observes in Southern
      > religious movements, we are still talking about beliefs that
      involve
      > faith and a personal god, so I still don't see how it was relevant
      to
      > this group's interests. In addition, concerning the issue of
      > Docetism, I mentioned how certain self-proclaimed Gnostics embrace
      > this viewpoint while still treating such a savior as an
      > anthropomorphized, limited, personal god. Again (to be more blunt
      > this time, in hopes of avoiding anyone thinking that I've implied
      > something other than what I intended!), I should simply
      say, "WTF."
      > At such a group's very best, it's probably just another case of
      > Gnosis Envy. I think you had the same individuals in mind when
      you
      > reiterated the point with your reference to Marcionites.
      >
      > Going back to Bloom's book, I was struck by the comments of one
      > critic in particular. I believe he was a cleric, and he noted
      that
      > his biggest concern was that the "objective" God (envisioned by
      the
      > Church) was being ignored among the highly "subjective" movements
      > associated with the phenomenon that Bloom was describing. As he
      > critiqued the inevitable drawback of such personalized religion
      > (paraphrasing), "We are all Popes . . . but only unto ourselves."
      I
      > thought the imagery there was quite appropriate: a great deal of
      > people authoritatively pontificating and proselytizing, but with
      no
      > one having any true believers of their message save themselves.
      >
      > Well, whether talking about Catholics, or Protestants, or some
      kind
      > of newfangled Protestants, or even some sort of wannabe pneumatics
      > who have hijacked the Gnostic myths and perverted them to suit
      their
      > own fundamentalist faith, I think I would have difficulty with
      anyone
      > who questioned whether I saw a "connection" between those groups
      and
      > Gnosticism. It would be as if I had been asked, "Do you prefer an
      > objective or subjective Demiurge? . . . How about a literalist or
      > solipsist approach to the Divine"
      >
      > Geez, if those were my only choices, I suppose I would have to
      pass
      > altogether.
      >
      > Gerry
    • Mike Leavitt
      Hello lady_caritas ... I can t give you citations, but some of the writings specifically say if you don t make it you are turned back to earth. I read such a
      Message 61 of 61 , Aug 12, 2005
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        Hello lady_caritas

        On 08/12/05, you wrote:

        > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "janahooks" <janahooks@y...>
        > wrote:
        >> Hello, Mike.
        >>
        >>> Well the theosophists would say (recasting their termanalogy into
        >>> gnostic) that at death only the portion of soul useful to the
        > spirit
        >>> is saved, the rest is left to decay.
        >>
        >> Now, that's something to think about: what part of my soul is
        > *useful*
        >> to my spirit? I might not sleep if I think about that. ;)
        >>
        >> jana
        >
        >
        > Say, Mike, to tie in Plotinus and the Enneads that Steve brought up,
        > I didn't know that Plotinus was a "Great Theosophist." ;-) lol Per:
        > http://www.wisdomworld.org/setting/plotinus.html
        >
        > Anyway, if you scroll about halfway down the page linked above,
        > Plotinus and Porphyry, have a dialogue about the soul.
        >
        > Plotinus: "Every soul has a lower part turned toward the body, and a
        > higher part turned toward the divine intelligence."
        >
        >
        > Anyone want to comment about how the Gnostics viewed "soul" and its
        > relation to death? (Are we just talking about physical death here?)
        > The Gnostics seemed to be more preoccupied with cosmogony,...
        > beginnings, origins, reunification, as I believe Gerry pointed out
        > earlier. Do the Gnostics have anything to specifically say about
        > reincarnation, or not?
        >
        > Cari

        I can't give you citations, but some of the writings specifically say
        if you don't make it you are turned back to earth. I read such a
        passage here just a few weeks ago. May have been Phillip, but I
        can't remember. No idea of karma there though.

        Regards
        --
        Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s
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