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Re: A comparison of Iranian and Indian speculation

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  • Steve
    ... doing a ... Mandean) ... Manichaeans ... the ... Buddhism ... comparative ... in ... of ... itself ... was ... P.S. I neglected to mention that Purusha and
    Message 1 of 5 , Jul 24, 2005
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      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <eugnostos2000@y...>
      wrote:
      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...> wrote:
      > > Hey Steve...
      > >
      > > >>>"Hey Karl, or anyone else who would like to respond: I am
      doing a
      > > comparison study of Iranian gnostic speculation(Manichaean,
      Mandean)
      > > and Indian Samkhya philosophy. Is there anyone here who is
      > > knowledgable in both areas? I would appreciate any input."<<<
      > >
      > > I am afraid I can't add much to that conversation, so I hope
      > somebody
      > > else here can. I do know a bit about Manichaeans, but virtually
      > > nothing about various schools of eastern thought. While
      Manichaeans
      > > are not technically Gnostics, I do think they are important to
      the
      > > study. I know that some scholors believe that "Pure Land"
      Buddhism
      > is
      > > actually an offshoot of Manichaism that was hidden within a
      > Buddhist
      > > school during the persecutions, but beyond this particular group
      > which
      > > was compared for historical reasons I have never seen a
      comparative
      > > analysis done with other eastern schools of thought. Feel free to
      > > educate us.
      > >
      > > PMCV
      >
      > Hi Karl. Samkhya is one of the 6 main philosophical systems found
      in
      > India. The most authoritative text is the Sankhya Karika, which was
      > written circa 200 CE. It postulates a primal dualism between Spirit
      > (Purusha) and Matter(Prakrti). All transitory phenomena, including
      > our ordinary minds or egos, are part of Prakrti, which undergoes a
      > process of evolution based upon cause-and-effect. Purusha, on the
      > other hand, is changeless and not contained within the catagories
      of
      > time and space. The Purushas are multiple, but are said to be
      > infinite in interpenetration with other Purushas. Purusha witnesses
      > Prakrti, and falls into delusional bondage by mis-identifying
      itself
      > with Prakrti. Purusha, itself, never actually does anything. All
      > evolutionary change takes place within Prakrti, which reacts to the
      > presence of Purusha. Purusha is said to be liberated from Prakrti
      > when it realizes its distinction from it. As you can see, there are
      > some interesting parallels with Manicheaen and Mandean dualism. I
      was
      > curious if there could have been some cultural link to account for
      > the similarities. -Steve W.

      P.S. I neglected to mention that Purusha and Prakrti are said by the
      Samkhya school to be co-eternal. There is no hint of the emanationist
      thinking characteristic of the Syrian/Egyptian Gnostic schools.
    • Steve
      ... group ... to ... found ... was ... Spirit ... including ... a ... witnesses ... the ... are ... for ... the ... emanationist ... Correction: Upon further
      Message 2 of 5 , Jul 26, 2005
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        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <eugnostos2000@y...>
        wrote:
        > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "Steve" <eugnostos2000@y...>
        > wrote:
        > > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, pmcvflag <no_reply@y...>
        wrote:
        > > > Hey Steve...
        > > >
        > > > >>>"Hey Karl, or anyone else who would like to respond: I am
        > doing a
        > > > comparison study of Iranian gnostic speculation(Manichaean,
        > Mandean)
        > > > and Indian Samkhya philosophy. Is there anyone here who is
        > > > knowledgable in both areas? I would appreciate any input."<<<
        > > >
        > > > I am afraid I can't add much to that conversation, so I hope
        > > somebody
        > > > else here can. I do know a bit about Manichaeans, but virtually
        > > > nothing about various schools of eastern thought. While
        > Manichaeans
        > > > are not technically Gnostics, I do think they are important to
        > the
        > > > study. I know that some scholors believe that "Pure Land"
        > Buddhism
        > > is
        > > > actually an offshoot of Manichaism that was hidden within a
        > > Buddhist
        > > > school during the persecutions, but beyond this particular
        group
        > > which
        > > > was compared for historical reasons I have never seen a
        > comparative
        > > > analysis done with other eastern schools of thought. Feel free
        to
        > > > educate us.
        > > >
        > > > PMCV
        > >
        > > Hi Karl. Samkhya is one of the 6 main philosophical systems
        found
        > in
        > > India. The most authoritative text is the Sankhya Karika, which
        was
        > > written circa 200 CE. It postulates a primal dualism between
        Spirit
        > > (Purusha) and Matter(Prakrti). All transitory phenomena,
        including
        > > our ordinary minds or egos, are part of Prakrti, which undergoes
        a
        > > process of evolution based upon cause-and-effect. Purusha, on the
        > > other hand, is changeless and not contained within the catagories
        > of
        > > time and space. The Purushas are multiple, but are said to be
        > > infinite in interpenetration with other Purushas. Purusha
        witnesses
        > > Prakrti, and falls into delusional bondage by mis-identifying
        > itself
        > > with Prakrti. Purusha, itself, never actually does anything. All
        > > evolutionary change takes place within Prakrti, which reacts to
        the
        > > presence of Purusha. Purusha is said to be liberated from Prakrti
        > > when it realizes its distinction from it. As you can see, there
        are
        > > some interesting parallels with Manicheaen and Mandean dualism. I
        > was
        > > curious if there could have been some cultural link to account
        for
        > > the similarities. -Steve W.
        >
        > P.S. I neglected to mention that Purusha and Prakrti are said by
        the
        > Samkhya school to be co-eternal. There is no hint of the
        emanationist
        > thinking characteristic of the Syrian/Egyptian Gnostic schools.

        Correction: Upon further study, I see that Samkhya is, after all,
        emanationist as in Neo-platonism and the Syrian-Egyptian Gnostic
        schools. I'm new to the study of Samkhya myself, coming from a
        background in Buddhist studies, which is why I was hoping that
        someone here could fill me in on any links between Gnosticism and
        Samkhya. Sorry for the mis-information. -Steve W.
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