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Re: [Gnosticism2] Re: re: "God's prerogative..."

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  • Nick Lawrance
    From: Kelly Graham Think of it this way, if you can.. God has offered us a gift.. non gratis.. for coming to bear the burdens of out wrongs for the past
    Message 1 of 32 , Jun 5, 2005
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      From: Kelly Graham
       
      Think of it this way, if you can..

               God has offered us a gift.. non gratis.. for coming to bear the
      burdens of out wrongs for the past generations. In effect, we have a "clean slate" on
      which to map our lices out on! PLUS! Lo and Behold.. He left us with a few (yes..
      "few")simple instructions!! And God says, "I will be with anyone who PERSONALLY
      receives this gift and keeps it!"

              Simple enough so far ? Then, some people come along... and I have met a few of them.
      myself, who say: "OK, God... so what? I don't need this gift! I can do OK on my own!"

              We are a STUBBORN bunch...What is God to do? Go back on any and all of His words?
              He did, after all, give us that Free-Will (because God wants a friend, not a puppet).
              Well, God chooses to let us go on, trying to get to His level on our own
      strengths.. but, alas, we can't:
              In trying to keep one commandment.. we break all the others..and, still, when we are shown we are still far away from God, most of us(including some Gnostics) say: "I can go my own way."Many will not, because they can not, see their own mistakes.        And, God cannot really help who WILL NOT listen to Him. We either take away
      His words... or we add so many of our own that we can no long hear Him.

      ...................................................................
      Surely you are just giving the standard Christian orthodox viewpoint but have you considered they may be wrong? Don't forget that it was orthodox with ruthless efficiency who tried destroy anyone and any strain of thought that did not agree with what they wanted you to believe.  Why do you think the large body of Gnostic texts had to be hidden? Gnosticism speaks of knowledge and ignorance not sin and salvation. In Gnosticism Jesus is not sent to die in order to pacify an angry God; he comes as a guide to lead us away from the suffering and death that this world holds. There is no clean slate for  slate for if you do not break free from ignorance taht binds you then it means rebirth again and again back into the cycle of incarnations of the material plane. If you put the effort in experiencing Gnosis for yourself then you will find out for yourself  if it was the Gnostics or the orthodox who were correct. But I certainly agree with you that God can not hep those who will not listen to him.
       
      Nick
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 8:06 PM
      Subject: [Gnosticism2] Re: re: "God's prerogative..."

      >    Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2005 05:51:40 -0700 (PDT)
      >    From: David Wilson <light_life_love@...>
      > Subject: Re: re: "God's prerogative..."
      >
      > Gerry <gerryhsp@...> wrote:
      >
      > --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "gich morgan" <gich2@b...> wrote:
      > > However, it seems to me that in gnosticism, the concepts of gnosis,
      > > God and salvation are inextricably tied together and so it's not
      > > possible to discuss any one of these in isolation. ... Gnosis? A gift
      > > from God. Why? Necessary for salvation.
      > >
      > > Gich
      > >
      >
      > Gich, consider for a moment how salvation works in mainstream
      > Christianity.  For the most part, "God" is believed to have incarnated
      > and suffered for our sins.  By professing belief in that vicarious
      > sacrifice, the faithful are saved.  The funny thing is though, if Jesus
      > died for all of mankind, then why isn't everybody *automatically*
      > saved, without having to bow down to this god?  By such reckoning, even
      > those who have lived their lives without ever hearing of the Christian
      > God would be lost.  Throughout the world's history, that amounts to a
      > lot of regions, a lot of cultures, and a whole lot of people who never
      > had a chance.
      >

               

               Kelly Paul Graham





    • marinas_snake
      ... Thank you. Makes me wonder though. Marina
      Message 32 of 32 , Jun 11, 2005
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        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
        > Hello marinas_snake
        >
        > On 06/11/05, you wrote:
        >
        > > "Demiurge: According to the Gnostics (as opposed to Plato and others
        > > who had a more positive assessment), an inferior deity who
        > > ignorantly and incompetently fashioned the debased physical world"
        >
        > Let's look at the obvious, derrevation can be negative or positive, in
        > this case, the demiurge turns negative, but the idea was still
        > derived from the Platonists. Gnosis has a smaller role in Platonism,
        > but again Gnosis as salvation was derrived from it. Augustine
        > derrived original sin (I would bet) from Manachean ideas of good and
        > evil, but wound up looking quite different. Derrivation does not
        > mean carrying through ideas in the same way.
        >
        > Regards
        > --
        > Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s


        Thank you. Makes me wonder though.

        Marina
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