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Re: [Gnosticism2] re: "God's prerogative..."

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  • David Wilson
    I myself, see Gnosis as the salvation. I see it as the gift from God which saves us from peril & doom. as with rapture and damnation, rapture was a creation of
    Message 1 of 32 , Jun 2, 2005
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      I myself, see Gnosis as the salvation. I see it as the gift from God which saves us from peril & doom. as with rapture and damnation, rapture was a creation of a priest I think in the 1800's it was never anything which has been included or a part of any bible. Damnation I believe falls to that which is abomination and that which does it on to them selves. I refuses to believe in a God of old which siuts upon a thrown of power and is consistantly dictating our lives. why then would God give us free will- power over the angels and demonsof old.
       
      David

      Gerry <gerryhsp@...> wrote:

      --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, "gich morgan" <gich2@b...> wrote:
      > However, it seems to me that in gnosticism, the concepts of gnosis,
      > God and salvation are inextricably tied together and so it's not
      > possible to discuss any one of these in isolation. ... Gnosis? A gift
      > from God. Why? Necessary for salvation.
      >
      > Gich
      >




      Gich, consider for a moment how salvation works in mainstream
      Christianity.  For the most part, "God" is believed to have incarnated
      and suffered for our sins.  By professing belief in that vicarious
      sacrifice, the faithful are saved.  The funny thing is though, if Jesus
      died for all of mankind, then why isn't everybody *automatically*
      saved, without having to bow down to this god?  By such reckoning, even
      those who have lived their lives without ever hearing of the Christian
      God would be lost.  Throughout the world's history, that amounts to a
      lot of regions, a lot of cultures, and a whole lot of people who never
      had a chance.

      Now, from an ostensibly Gnostic perspective, you say that Gnosis is
      necessary for salvation, and it is a gift from God.  So, if God chooses
      who will be saved and who will be condemned (by virtue of whether or
      not a person is on His gift-giving list, perhaps you could explain how
      your system involves a god who is any less capricious (and demiurgic)
      than in the previous scenario.  Wouldn't it be easier for him to simply
      smite those to whom He's not doling out gifts, and sweep up the chosen
      ones, to be rewarded with their eternal bliss?

      But I don't see what this kind of rapture and damnation have to do with
      Gnosticism.

      Gerry




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    • marinas_snake
      ... Thank you. Makes me wonder though. Marina
      Message 32 of 32 , Jun 11, 2005
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        --- In gnosticism2@yahoogroups.com, Mike Leavitt <ac998@l...> wrote:
        > Hello marinas_snake
        >
        > On 06/11/05, you wrote:
        >
        > > "Demiurge: According to the Gnostics (as opposed to Plato and others
        > > who had a more positive assessment), an inferior deity who
        > > ignorantly and incompetently fashioned the debased physical world"
        >
        > Let's look at the obvious, derrevation can be negative or positive, in
        > this case, the demiurge turns negative, but the idea was still
        > derived from the Platonists. Gnosis has a smaller role in Platonism,
        > but again Gnosis as salvation was derrived from it. Augustine
        > derrived original sin (I would bet) from Manachean ideas of good and
        > evil, but wound up looking quite different. Derrivation does not
        > mean carrying through ideas in the same way.
        >
        > Regards
        > --
        > Mike Leavitt ac998_@_lafn._org remove -'s


        Thank you. Makes me wonder though.

        Marina
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